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Old 03-01-2017, 10:30 AM
 
25,733 posts, read 16,354,005 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Oldglory View Post
Agreed. No more allowing the unskilled, uneducated and dirt poor into our country. End all this family reunification BS also. A merit system makes more sense.
Immigration to the US should be like a job application. They should publish on the site who we have openings for. No longer will we "offshore" IT jobs. If we need IT people they should immigrate HERE and become Americans.

The Indian people are great programmers and IT people. They are absolutely essential. But they hold dual citizenship and send much of their earnings home. Why aren't they becoming Americans?

If they like working here, like our wages and benefits they should MOVE here and STAY here.

So yeah, if we need IT people put it on the immigration site in multiple languages.
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Old 03-01-2017, 10:40 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by keraT View Post
How many of you are familiar with immigration law or know someone who went thru the immigration process? Do you think people just walk in to USA (ok minus the illegal immigrants, I am talking about legal immigration). Do you think people hop on plane and land in USA and become legal.


We already have many of the things people talk about in place.
Exactly.

Coming here is actually really hard. To hear the anti-immigrant crowd spew, you'd think anybody can just hop on a plane and move here, when in reality it's a long process and you often need attorneys to craft RFEs, experts to write letters attesting to your qualifications, etc.
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Old 03-01-2017, 10:47 AM
 
Location: Austin TX
11,027 posts, read 6,454,075 times
Reputation: 13258
Quote:
Originally Posted by JasonF View Post
Exactly.

Coming here is actually really hard. To hear the anti-immigrant crowd spew, you'd think anybody can just hop on a plane and move here, when in reality it's a long process and you often need attorneys to craft RFEs, experts to write letters attesting to your qualifications, etc.
So how do you feel then about the new report that states that 72% of legal immigrants here right now are receiving some form of welfare?

Report: America attracting poor, uneducated immigrants | Washington Examiner

That means that only 28% of legal immigrants here are fully independent and self-funded. That's a number that needs to be rectified. We are simply caring for and feeding far too many destitute people who aren't bringing enough money and work-ready skills to become productive members of our society. This is what merit-based immigration will tackle. We need this.
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Old 03-01-2017, 11:00 AM
 
2,411 posts, read 1,954,335 times
Reputation: 5786
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ponderosa View Post
Let's not forget that many of those foreigners (merit based immigrants) come from places where a STEM degree is FREE. It's just like everything else in the US from the field hand to the engineer. We don't give a damn about our own people. It cuts into profit to invest in America and hire Americans. Greed is our creed. Trump is no different and his "merit based" immigration plan is the exclamation point on that. It's just someone else's ox getting gored for the further enrichment of the rich.
If we used the lower grades in the public system better, we could have already useful STEM 'grads' by the time they got out of high school. You can start teaching Python to 4 year olds for gosh sakes. By 7, some of today's kids could be hacking into North Korea's databanks as it is (and that is often just from learning they do on their own at home).


Whatever it is we are doing right now in the education system, we are pouring out high school grads who can't read, write or do basic math in many cases so higher 'education' (beginning with a lot of remedial training in many cases) becomes necessary or they become dropouts from life too often. We are already paying for public schools ... let's make those work better for us and the high costs of university just to get them to the place they could be productive may not be as necessary.


Right now it is obvious we are wasting time and money on elementary education in terms of what we COULD be accomplishing .. we are teaching first graders about sexual identities and what it means to be a transgender instead of spending the time on giving them the good tried and true basic 3Rs, some critical basic life-skills and the foundations for STEM thinking. And what we should be developing in all kids is real self-confidence (which does come sometimes from failure and re-doing things till they get it right - let's stop the participation trophy crap), curiosity and entrepreneurial thinking skills - which will suit all kids even though not ALL people are suited to STEM careers, since that really isn't all there is for them to do in this world either.


The school system could and should 'stream' kids (tentatively at first .. some develop later than others so potential is not always correctly identifiable in the lowest grades). It may sound inhumane to some but it is actually the best and fairest way to do it for all kids in my opinion. All will get a good education but they will get the education that suits both their needs and society's needs.


And corporations also need to do a lot of self-re-examination - and begin to hire more on potential, with the idea of training in house, than on someone having 20 degrees in something that was big last year but already obsolete today and who is now almost totally 'academic' and not 'practical' any more. And they need to go back to being loyal to their employees and expecting the same of their employees. They need to accept some short term pain for long term gain.


That is how we beat the world at their own game - not necessarily by bringing in kids who have been given a free college education elsewhere or paying for those for our own kids. We make good people we have right now productive much faster and give them more security so they can actually excel for us. We need to use what we already have better. We need to work smarter not harder or more expensively.


That said, we should and will always take in qualified immigrants. They too add to the fabric of society and to the innovation we need in the workplace because they often come with different ways of looking at things. We need different perspectives .. it will keep us from being too insular and make us more competitive over all.


Refugees are hit and miss for the most part. We have to consider them more charity at first - since we are not likely to get supremely educated ones as a whole. We have to hope and expect them to assimilate and learn however so they too can be productive eventually. Either that or we take them in only as guests with the understanding they are definitely going back where they came from if and when the situation improves there because they will be needed there to help rebuild their own countries. However, we can send them back better than they were when they arrived if we do that right too.

Last edited by Aery11; 03-01-2017 at 11:12 AM..
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Old 03-01-2017, 11:03 AM
 
2,606 posts, read 2,685,483 times
Reputation: 3550
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nor Cal Wahine View Post
And yet despite all the vetting we have a 72% rate of legal immigrants on some type of welfare.

Report: America attracting poor, uneducated immigrants | Washington Examiner

This is what needs to change. Now.
First I find that information hard to believe.


Second if the information is true, then the problem is not immigration. The problem is welfare department. Why are they giving out aids to immigrants? Immigrants are either sponsored by a company (H1 visa, so have secure job) or sponsored by a family member (spouse, siblings, kids/parents) who is a USA citizen. Both cases there are responsible party who vouched to financially take care of that immigrant. Why then is the welfare department handing out free money?


Which makes me wonder what type of welfare are they qualifying for? Are they talking about free school lunch (which I think should be free for everyone, they are kids and we have lazy parents) or WIC for new born baby or are they talking about food stamp. Again this is a welfare issue not immigration issue
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Old 03-01-2017, 11:06 AM
 
Location: On a Long Island in NY
7,801 posts, read 10,064,572 times
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Let's compromise: merit based legal immigration system in exchange for full citizenship for all illegal immigrants already here who have not committed a violent crime and who pay a $5,000 fine.
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Old 03-01-2017, 11:09 AM
 
Location: SA
275 posts, read 184,118 times
Reputation: 236
Quote:
Originally Posted by Toyman at

[QUOTE=Nor Cal Wahine;47361561
So how do you feel then about the new report that states that 72% of legal immigrants here right now are receiving some form of welfare?

Report: America attracting poor, uneducated immigrants | Washington Examiner

That means that only 28% of legal immigrants here are fully independent and self-funded. That's a number that needs to be rectified. We are simply caring for and feeding far too many destitute people who aren't bringing enough money and work-ready skills to become productive members of our society. This is what merit-based immigration will tackle. We need this.
No, it doesn't mean that at all. Read the tables and the statistics population.

Btw H1b usually pay 5 figures in taxes, and they are not eligible for a lot of aid programs. So they pay for Americans' benefits.
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Old 03-01-2017, 11:10 AM
 
Location: Austin TX
11,027 posts, read 6,454,075 times
Reputation: 13258
Quote:
Originally Posted by keraT View Post
First I find that information hard to believe.


Second if the information is true, then the problem is not immigration. The problem is welfare department. Why are they giving out aids to immigrants? Immigrants are either sponsored by a company (H1 visa, so have secure job) or sponsored by a family member (spouse, siblings, kids/parents) who is a USA citizen. Both cases there are responsible party who vouched to financially take care of that immigrant. Why then is the welfare department handing out free money?


Which makes me wonder what type of welfare are they qualifying for? Are they talking about free school lunch (which I think should be free for everyone, they are kids and we have lazy parents) or WIC for new born baby or are they talking about food stamp. Again this is a welfare issue not immigration issue
It begins as an Immigration issue, when we give a stamp of approval to incoming immigrants who arrive penniless and uneducated. They then become wards of the social system upon arrival. This is something that a vast number of Americans are becoming fed-up with. It's not racist or anti-immigrant to expect a more broad percentage of arrivals to hit the ground running, and not with a hand out for money, food, clothing, and shelter.

You don't have to believe the data if you're simply not inclined to, of course. But the promotion of merit-based immigration is in part due to the fact that we accept far more immigrants in need of social services than we do immigrants who arrive educated and employable. If other modern countries deploy these systems with great success, why can't we?
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Old 03-01-2017, 11:29 AM
 
Location: Sonoran Desert
38,959 posts, read 50,889,529 times
Reputation: 28139
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nor Cal Wahine View Post
It begins as an Immigration issue, when we give a stamp of approval to incoming immigrants who arrive penniless and uneducated. They then become wards of the social system upon arrival. This is something that a vast number of Americans are becoming fed-up with. It's not racist or anti-immigrant to expect a more broad percentage of arrivals to hit the ground running, and not with a hand out for money, food, clothing, and shelter.

You don't have to believe the data if you're simply not inclined to, of course. But the promotion of merit-based immigration is in part due to the fact that we accept far more immigrants in need of social services than we do immigrants who arrive educated and employable. If other modern countries deploy these systems with great success, why can't we?
I don't know if that is the case. It certainly is not the law. Immigrants have to have means of their own or be sponsored such that they will not become a public burden under our immigration laws.
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Old 03-01-2017, 11:40 AM
 
Location: Barrington
63,919 posts, read 46,456,708 times
Reputation: 20674
Quote:
Originally Posted by Oldglory View Post
Agreed. No more allowing the unskilled, uneducated and dirt poor into our country. End all this family reunification BS also. A merit system makes more sense.
The US had no historical issue with importing brown foreign labor in the form of slaves and migrant workers with strong backs.

The vast majority of European immigrants during prior waves of immigration were unskilled, uneducated and dirt poor. They tended to live in squalor in ethnic ghettos and did not particularily assimilate, well. As the numbers grew, various ethnic groups imposed their cultures on those who came before. Had they not, celebration of Christmas would have remained a crime. Imagine that.

Many who post here seem to feel threatened by skilled and educated immigrants, too.

Thank goodness our unskilled, uneducated and dirt poor anscestors made it through before a merit system was imposed, eh.

As an aside, I have no particular issue with slowing the rate of immigration, going forward.
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