Can liberals support Trump's plan to Buy American & Hire American? (military, economy)
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"Can liberals support Trump's plan to Buy American & Hire American?"
What plan?
Tangible goods produced under the Trump branding are predominantly made in China. Telling Americans to Buy/Hire American while personally profiting from sweatshop labor is disingenuous. So until he moves manufacturing of every single Trump-branded item back to America, nobody can claim that disliking his plan is "hating America".
From CEO's to plebeian consumers, people were willing to throw away their patriotism for a cheaper product.
Basically this. If tangible goods, especially technological ones, were actually made to last a lifetime, it just means that our technological advancements will be slower rather than the pace they are at now.
With the advancement of 3D printers, this is never going to happen. As they become more mainstream, it could actually be the reason for manufacturing returning stateside.
It's a technology I tell parents to get their children access to. Not only for future career aspects, but for all of the really useful things you can create on your own without having to make a trip to the store. Realized we needed a better way to store 3DS games, so I printed out a slotted organizer with holes at the top and bottom so we could hang it up. Stuff like that. Pen caps. Clamps. Wall hooks. Prosthesis.
A hinge piece for the handle of my car door that would have cost $35? Glued the broken piece together, used a 3D scanner (Kinect), cleaned up the edges of the model, and printed. Whole process took maybe an hour tops... mostly because I was running the printer at a slower speed with 100% infill so that it was solid.
Then there was the time I needed to replace our toilet paper roll holder because the brace on the old one broke... (see attached image )
3D printers and filament are not cheap. The average American does not have access to this technology. Most are not going to be running out and spending a large sum of money on something that makes toilet paper holders and such, when these items can be bought for cheap. In many cases, it would make no sense to spend the time, effort and money printing those items. What you are describing is a hobby, not something that is going to radically change the way we live in the next decade or two.
Better off investing in a hammer, some nails and a miter saw. And the skills learned could lead to gainful employment. Carpenters can earn a decent living. 3D printing technology has existed for 30 years, and US corporations are still struggling to figure out how to properly utilize it.
Buy American & Hire American is an idea... it is a message. You may not like the messenger, in fact you may hate him, but you can still like the idea. I didn't say "If you hate Trump, then you probably hate America." There is a distinction. Liberals don't seem to be capable of understanding why Trump won. It wasn't necessarily him that we voted for, it was his message and his passionate love for our country that attracted tens of thousands to his rallies.
I repped you for this because I do think there's too much personality in politics rather than actual policy. It's like who says it has more weight than what is said. It hurts both sides, frankly. I get the temptation, and it is legitimate to point out someone's hypocrisy, but you asked specifically about the idea and not the man.
In terms of the actual idea, you will find no American who wouldn't love to support American companies first. However, the number will dwindle significantly if you then ask, "Would you rather pay a (insert whatever immigrant) $5 to mow your lawn or an American $20? (multiply that by 52 weeks)" and even more when you ask questions like, "Would you rather pay $3 for berries at Ralph's or $10 for berries at Whole Foods?" The only people left, I guarantee you, are going to be the granola hippies - not conservatives, or most liberals.
I'm not liberal and I can't support it. Buy american and hire american has historically been a rallying cry for crazies on the far right and far right....and other anti-capitalists. Every freedom loving American and free market capitalists should oppose Trump and his economic nationalism (anti-capitalist BS)
Viva la capitalism.
Down with righties, lefties, and trumpies
I repped you for this because I do think there's too much personality in politics rather than actual policy. It's like who says it has more weight than what is said. It hurts both sides, frankly. I get the temptation, and it is legitimate to point out someone's hypocrisy, but you asked specifically about the idea and not the man.
In terms of the actual idea, you will find no American who wouldn't love to support American companies first. However, the number will dwindle significantly if you then ask, "Would you rather pay a (insert whatever immigrant) $5 to mow your lawn or an American $20? (multiply that by 52 weeks)" and even more when you ask questions like, "Would you rather pay $3 for berries at Ralph's or $10 for berries at Whole Foods?" The only people left, I guarantee you, are going to be the granola hippies - not conservatives, or most liberals.
Thank you. I agree with much of what you've said. If I had a lawn to mow, I'd buy a John Deere and do it myself. I sold my lawn tractor when I moved to the Southwest. As far as the berries, I buy the frozen ones at Sam's. I'm not sure where they are from. I don't have a Whole Foods available, but I do go to the Natural Grocer quite often and buy produce and meat. I even splurged recently and bought a $35 jar of grass fed ghee from California.
You are correct. I was curious about whether the other side could support the idea. Judging by the responses, there does appear to be a few that are on board with the initiative. That is refreshing to see. I knew the Trump haters would chime in as well, but that was not really the purpose of the thread. It was a simple question really.
FYI - Buy American was instituted by the Obama administration as a part of "the stimulus" in 2009-2010.
It is a liberal created and supported plan...
I remember these commercials from the 70s:
The unions have been pushing to buy American for almost a century.
Trumpka is having a bigger bromance with Trump than he had with Obama, and he was at the WH 100+ times.
If Trumpka loves the buy American meme, the liberals should be all for it.
BTW, Trump is methodically getting everything he wants. Love him (he loves) hate him (he doesn't really care) everyone who underestimates him ends up looking like the fools.
Quote:
Originally Posted by 1grin_g0
I was curious about whether the other side could support the idea. Judging by the responses, there does appear to be a few that are on board with the initiative. That is refreshing to see. I knew the Trump haters would chime in as well, but that was not really the purpose of the thread. It was a simple question really.
The better the economy does, when ACA is replaced with a more end user friendly act, the more the Dems start to cozy up to the liberal wish lists he is checking off (they will, trust me) the more people will jump the ideology ship and back onto the US Great Again bandwagon.
The "Buy American" clauses for transportation contracts receiving federal grants and loans go back to the 1990s.
The slogan itself goes back to the 50s.
I well remember, as a kid, the scorn that was heaped on things labelled "Made in Japan". I suppose part of it was racist, because a lot of americans were as contemptuous of asians as they were of blacks. Part of it reflected reality, Japan was so destroyed following the war that they would have been simply unable to produce anything complex with a high standard of quality. And I think part of it would have been due to the US-protective-agreements under which Japan traded anything to the US. And, not least, part of it was the simple pride in american manufacturing, which was such a big factor in winning WWII.
I well remember, as a kid, the scorn that was heaped on things labelled "Made in Japan". I suppose part of it was racist, because a lot of americans were as contemptuous of asians as they were of blacks. Part of it reflected reality, Japan was so destroyed following the war that they would have been simply unable to produce anything complex with a high standard of quality. And I think part of it would have been due to the US-protective-agreements under which Japan traded anything to the US. And, not least, part of it was the simple pride in american manufacturing, which was such a big factor in winning WWII.
That's funny, I was thinking of Made in Japan the other day. You don't see it anymore.
For a brief period, the stamp was "Made in Occupied Japan", and that used to be worth money to collectors.
If you hate the idea, then you probably hate America.
He seems to hate the idea - having most of his products made overseas and recently going back on his promise to use American Steel on the Keystone pipeline. I think Trump will let the Russians and others he has relationships with in on most deals.
Even independent of "know nothing" statements like the OP....I realize that 100's (actually thousands) of foreign companies have built plants on American soil - although most of the profits end up back in the home countries. These plants use parts made all over the world.
You'd have to be nuts to believe that one shouldn't buy a BMW made in South Carolina or a Michelin Tire made in North Carolina.....or plastics made in Western MA. in a factory owned 100% by the Saudis.
In other words - that horse left the barn a LONG time ago. 100's of years......in some cases thousands of years. To act as if it can be simply reversed by campaign speeches is ridiculous.
BTW, how is the Made in China computer, router, screen, tv, and other stuff you are using to take part in this discussion treating you? You must hate America...
Jingoism as you put forward is not only ineffective, it is dangerous. It assumes that there is only one "right" way of doing things and if you don't commit you are a traitor...even though you admit to being one yourself and that your POTUS is one too (both of you own large quantities of "globalist" goods).
I believe the world is best in trade. Protectionism is an old idea that doesn't work. Foreign corporations and capital employ millions of Americans. Do you hate those Americans? Donald Trump supposedly gets most of his capital from abroad (he's considered a bad bet by American banks). Does he hate America due to this?
f I had a lawn to mow, I'd buy a John Deere and do it myself. I sold my lawn tractor when I moved to the Southwest. .
MANY of the John Deere and other famous American brand mowers you see in many of the big box stores are made in China or Japan. If not the whole tractor, then usually the engine or major other assemblies.
So buy that Deere and support Yanmar in Japan or China or the Deere factories in India.
Debating a subject such as this one is silly in itself - unless we are discussing it among people who understand the global flow of products and capital.
When it comes to food - you'd really be limited if you stopped with the grapes from Chile and the other produce from all over the world.
To make a long story short - "Buy American" would not help a thing...and would HURT a lot of things including jobs. The Deere dealers still has mechanics and delivery guys to work with your Made in China machine. Apple, which makes almost nothing here, supports (by some calculations) about 2 million US jobs. These people don't work for Apple - they make apps and program and do lots of other things.
Bottom line. Discussions such as this are "feel good" or even worse. They push forward an impossible scenario...which even if it happened, would likely make things much worse.
Assuming that the idea is to make things in America BETTER, I'd suggest some discussions about saving 100's of billions yearly on our bloated military, cutting a trillion per year from our health care costs and other such REALITIES. Whether a Trump necktie is made in NYC or Bengladesh just ain't gonna move the needle.
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The "Buy American" clauses for transportation contracts receiving federal grants and loans go back to the 1990s.
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