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It's too cold in most of the continental US.. another 5 degree temperature rise as an overall average would be a good thing.
Whatever happened to those dire predictions of Al Gore about Miami being underwater by now?
I'm pro environment, but the one thing we still haven't done in all the progress we've made controlling pollution is CO2 emissions.. they're a natural result of combustion. It's not going away for a few decades, until we develop the technology to mass produce vehicles that are fuel cell or some other tech that doesn't involve combustion.
I believe the planet will survive fine, we're just having some growing pains right now. The tech will come.. give it some time. The US is doing well.. other nations like China, etc. need to catch up. All the little trinkets like our Iphones that people take for granted are produced in China for a reason.... lax environmental and labor laws.. if the left truly cares about their fellow man and our planet, they will take their fight to where the problem lies.
I'm more of a primitivist. I would literally love to go back to walking and riding horses as a mode of transportation. Of course, this would also lead to the collapse of cities, and technology, and basically modern civilization itself.
I mean would you really want that? You're on a computer right now.
I'm neither. I'm a computer geek but I do care a lot about our animal friends. I wouldn't really describe myself as a materialist (I'd actually like to get rid of a lot of my junk so I want to be a minimalist)
I don't think I could go back to walking because I have plantar fasciitis now but I do walk my dogs every day. However I'd love to just live in a coastal state where I can go to the beach everyday if I wanted to..just don't have the money and am scared about moving. Maybe walking on the sand will help my feet? I also use the computer a lot less when I am vacationing.
I mean would you really want that? You're on a computer right now.
While I do enjoy playing the computer, I'm not convinced that it has actually made my life better. But, I think, because of the nature of the world, a computer is basically indispensable.
This is even more true for things like cars. Which, because of the nature of the world(especially here in Oklahoma), you basically cannot live without them.
The problem with technology, is that its very existence transforms the world.
Cars are probably the most-transformative technology in existence. And I can remember when I was a liberal, complaining about how interstates cause something called "urban sprawl". And one of the things I wanted to do to combat urban sprawl, was to drastically raise gas taxes, and more-or-less stop building new highways, and even lower speed limits(you get your best gas mileage at about 55 mph).
Let us go a step further and imagine what would happen to the world if there were no cars at all.
If there were no roads, people couldn't drive 10, or 20, or 50 miles to go to work, or go to the store. That doesn't mean they would be unemployed and starving. It actually means, they would live closer to work, or to whatever else they needed.
If cars disappeared, your entire life would become far more localized, just as it was before cars were invented. You wouldn't need a car, because everything you need would be close.
The very existence of cars, requires the existence of cars.
Another phenomenon you might recognize, is how people have been leaving the countryside to live in the cities. The primary cause of this, is that large machinery has displaced the need for manual labor.
There are a lot of myths surrounding the transformation of countries from agricultural to industrial. The main myth involves the idea that the poor people in the countryside, realized how much better it would be to live in the cities, and flocked to the cities.
The reality is much different.
Once machinery became available, the people who had once worked the land, were no longer needed. Those who didn't own land, had nowhere to go but to the cities, or starve. And as most 19th century thinkers realized, the conditions were actually worse in the cities than in the countryside, and the hours were longer(the socialists wanted land-reform, giving everyone a parcel of land).
The small farmer was unable to compete with large farmers, especially if they had no access to the capital to buy the heavy machinery. And if they took out loans to buy more land, or better machinery, they were suddenly in the debt of the bankers. All while taxes on farmland continued to rise. And if you don't pay your taxes, your land gets taken.
Every time I drive through the rural parts of Oklahoma, or Kansas, I always try to imagine what the world would look like, if we woke up tomorrow without any machinery at all.
If you watch the above video. How many people does that one tractor/harvester replace?
Instead of driving through massive fields, where the people are sparse. There would be little villages, full of people, dotting the landscape in all directions.
I'm something of a Medieval Romantic. I used to joke with a friend about how, you would wake up, go to work with your buddies, drink beer/ale all day, and hang out at the pub at night. Everyone knew each other, the kids all played together, most of the people were all part of the same extended-family.
The Church would have constant village-wide festivals, and the Church would often even brew its own beer/wine.
It reminds of that quote about "How the White Man went wrong."
"When white man find land, Indians running it, no taxes, no debt, plenty buffalo, plenty beaver, clean water. Women did all the work. Medicine man free. Indian man spend all day hunting and fishing; all night having sex.... Only white man dumb enough to think he could improve system like that."
I wouldn't really describe myself as a materialist.
I don't know enough about you, but let me say openly, the liberal ideology, at its core, is all about materialism.
They basically want everyone to be materially rich. They are really just "progressives". Believers of material and scientific progress. Their Utopia is always some futuristic utopia, something like Star Trek. And they are angry at people like me, for "getting in the way of progress". Or that, "If it weren't for people like me, they would be exploring the stars by now".
When they claim they want to protect the environment, as I said, they would be fine with covering the planet in concrete, as long as their day-to-day life wasn't negatively affected. Basically, they don't like pollution. They want clear air, clean water, and clean food. And not much beyond that.
Why is human HEALTH less important to them than big business?
If everyone is sick or dead.. money and business won't help you. Why is that not clear?
I'm waiting for the knee-jerk "Liberals hate business". NOPE.. we would rather people actually be alive and healthy so they can run their businesses.
Conservatives despise Environmentalism, because it's what stands between them and being able to more rapidly and profitably harvest all the resources, within their own lifetimes.
Of course you most likely believe the EPA was started by President Carter or President Clinton but the real world reality is the EPA was proposed by President Richard Nixon and began operation on December 2, 1970, after Nixon signed an executive order. The order establishing the EPA was ratified by committee hearings in the House and Senate. The agency is led by its Administrator, who is appointed by the president and approved by Congress.
Those right wingers, leave it up to them to wish for dirty water, poisoned air and dead children!
As far as we are all going to die I've listened to this complete garbage ever since grade school, yes grade school, back in the 1950's.
The Population Bomb, published in 1968 and scared the hell out of millions of grade school students, had us all dying out in the 1970's and 80's. By the year 2000 no humans would be left, we would all be dead.
And then there was Silent Spring is an environmental science fiction book by Rachel Carson. The book was published on 27 September 1962.
We were all gonna die.
"Silent Spring" called attention to the huge problem of DDT infesting the food chain. - and we are at the top of the food chain, remember. Once DDT's presence was greatly diminished, various species of birds' numbers rebounded significantly, as their eggshells were no longer so thin that the young could not hatch. Other species increased their populations as well.
That's why spring is no longer silent, as would be evident had you read the book and done a little research. I was around in 1962, and I remember that time well, and just what a huge impact "Silent Spring" had and the outcry for change it caused.
Thank goodness for Rachel Carson, a true fire bell in the night. Her book was and remains anything but science fiction. It is a cautionary tale, and a very real one.
While I do enjoy playing the computer, I'm not convinced that it has actually made my life better. But, I think, because of the nature of the world, a computer is basically indispensable.
This is even more true for things like cars. Which, because of the nature of the world(especially here in Oklahoma), you basically cannot live without them.
The problem with technology, is that its very existence transforms the world.
Cars are probably the most-transformative technology in existence. And I can remember when I was a liberal, complaining about how interstates cause something called "urban sprawl". And one of the things I wanted to do to combat urban sprawl, was to drastically raise gas taxes, and more-or-less stop building new highways, and even lower speed limits(you get your best gas mileage at about 55 mph).
Let us go a step further and imagine what would happen to the world if there were no cars at all.
If there were no roads, people couldn't drive 10, or 20, or 50 miles to go to work, or go to the store. That doesn't mean they would be unemployed and starving. It actually means, they would live closer to work, or to whatever else they needed.
If cars disappeared, your entire life would become far more localized, just as it was before cars were invented. You wouldn't need a car, because everything you need would be close.
The very existence of cars, requires the existence of cars.
Another phenomenon you might recognize, is how people have been leaving the countryside to live in the cities. The primary cause of this, is that large machinery has displaced the need for manual labor.
There are a lot of myths surrounding the transformation of countries from agricultural to industrial. The main myth involves the idea that the poor people in the countryside, realized how much better it would be to live in the cities, and flocked to the cities.
The reality is much different.
Once machinery became available, the people who had once worked the land, were no longer needed. Those who didn't own land, had nowhere to go but to the cities, or starve. And as most 19th century thinkers realized, the conditions were actually worse in the cities than in the countryside, and the hours were longer(the socialists wanted land-reform, giving everyone a parcel of land).
The small farmer was unable to compete with large farmers, especially if they had no access to the capital to buy the heavy machinery. And if they took out loans to buy more land, or better machinery, they were suddenly in the debt of the bankers. All while taxes on farmland continued to rise. And if you don't pay your taxes, your land gets taken.
Every time I drive through the rural parts of Oklahoma, or Kansas, I always try to imagine what the world would look like, if we woke up tomorrow without any machinery at all.
If you watch the above video. How many people does that one tractor/harvester replace?
Instead of driving through massive fields, where the people are sparse. There would be little villages, full of people, dotting the landscape in all directions.
I'm something of a Medieval Romantic. I used to joke with a friend about how, you would wake up, go to work with your buddies, drink beer/ale all day, and hang out at the pub at night. Everyone knew each other, the kids all played together, most of the people were all part of the same extended-family.
The Church would have constant village-wide festivals, and the Church would often even brew its own beer/wine.
It reminds of that quote about "How the White Man went wrong."
"When white man find land, Indians running it, no taxes, no debt, plenty buffalo, plenty beaver, clean water. Women did all the work. Medicine man free. Indian man spend all day hunting and fishing; all night having sex.... Only white man dumb enough to think he could improve system like that."
Interesting post, but at least one quibble: no cars doesn't mean no roads or significant transportation. The Romans built fine roads all over the Roman Empire and the routes they laid out are still in use in many places. I've driven on Roman roads in England. And don't forget steam, and horses and all the various wheeled vehicles that preceded the automobile. Railroad trains ran on coal, as did steamboats. Before that, sails got the Vikings around quite well and continued to be viable until the mid-nineteenth century.
People traveled, if they wanted to or needed to, long before cars became the vehicles of choice. They moved a bit more slowly and may not have gone as far - but move they did, all over the world. Just look at the immigrant and refugee ancestors of most contemporary Americans.
While I do enjoy playing the computer, I'm not convinced that it has actually made my life better. But, I think, because of the nature of the world, a computer is basically indispensable.
This is even more true for things like cars. Which, because of the nature of the world(especially here in Oklahoma), you basically cannot live without them.
The problem with technology, is that its very existence transforms the world.
Cars are probably the most-transformative technology in existence. And I can remember when I was a liberal, complaining about how interstates cause something called "urban sprawl". And one of the things I wanted to do to combat urban sprawl, was to drastically raise gas taxes, and more-or-less stop building new highways, and even lower speed limits(you get your best gas mileage at about 55 mph).
Let us go a step further and imagine what would happen to the world if there were no cars at all.
If there were no roads, people couldn't drive 10, or 20, or 50 miles to go to work, or go to the store. That doesn't mean they would be unemployed and starving. It actually means, they would live closer to work, or to whatever else they needed.
If cars disappeared, your entire life would become far more localized, just as it was before cars were invented. You wouldn't need a car, because everything you need would be close.
The very existence of cars, requires the existence of cars.
Another phenomenon you might recognize, is how people have been leaving the countryside to live in the cities. The primary cause of this, is that large machinery has displaced the need for manual labor.
There are a lot of myths surrounding the transformation of countries from agricultural to industrial. The main myth involves the idea that the poor people in the countryside, realized how much better it would be to live in the cities, and flocked to the cities.
The reality is much different.
Once machinery became available, the people who had once worked the land, were no longer needed. Those who didn't own land, had nowhere to go but to the cities, or starve. And as most 19th century thinkers realized, the conditions were actually worse in the cities than in the countryside, and the hours were longer(the socialists wanted land-reform, giving everyone a parcel of land).
That makes a lot of sense about the cars but at the same time how would you travel? Maybe you're not into traveling personally though..I'm very much a travel enthusiast (if I had money I would drive all the time). If I had more money I'd do it more often. I like exploring new places and am very bored of my own backyard. Or maybe they could get rid of cars but still keep airplanes? I feel like for most people they need to travel at least once a year and that's why people throughout history started wars. They didn't understand others because they were limited on the cultures they could explore. Sure you could read about it in books but it's not the same as actually going there.
Similar to that, though there are a lot of disadvantages to the internet one thing I do like about it is I can talk to people I can't normally talk to due to distance so when I don't have the money to hitch a plane I can just talk away.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Redshadowz
I don't know enough about you, but let me say openly, the liberal ideology, at its core, is all about materialism.
They basically want everyone to be materially rich. They are really just "progressives". Believers of material and scientific progress. Their Utopia is always some futuristic utopia, something like Star Trek. And they are angry at people like me, for "getting in the way of progress". Or that, "If it weren't for people like me, they would be exploring the stars by now".
When they claim they want to protect the environment, as I said, they would be fine with covering the planet in concrete, as long as their day-to-day life wasn't negatively affected. Basically, they don't like pollution. They want clear air, clean water, and clean food. And not much beyond that.
I mean I guess in a sense you could say I technically am but for me the word "materialist" has such a negative connotation. It's like saying you care more about things than any other living being besides yourself. The things I buy are almost always about experiences or necessity and sometimes I share that experience with others..it's not for the sake of just having more stuff.
I wish we could just meet in the middle. Why can't we have a primitive AND material world at the same time? I'm not sure how but surely there must be a way because computers do have their place (for me technology is how I discovered my passion which is design and music. I'm not a painter or craft person but I like to make montage videos and whenever I finish one I feel I did something meaningful) I mean I've always been an imaginative person even before I had a computer but a computer put my imagination to life I guess.
However I wish they'd keep computers out of the job application process and I'm not just saying that for me because if I was an employer I would go back to paper applications. It might take a little longer but not too long that I think I could afford the time.
Quote:
Originally Posted by CraigCreek
Interesting post, but at least one quibble: no cars doesn't mean no roads or significant transportation. The Romans built fine roads all over the Roman Empire and the routes they laid out are still in use in many places. I've driven on Roman roads in England. And don't forget steam, and horses and all the various wheeled vehicles that preceded the automobile. Railroad trains ran on coal, as did steamboats. Before that, sails got the Vikings around quite well and continued to be viable until the mid-nineteenth century.
People traveled, if they wanted to or needed to, long before cars became the vehicles of choice. They moved a bit more slowly and may not have gone as far - but move they did, all over the world. Just look at the immigrant and refugee ancestors of most contemporary Americans.
That's true but it took a lot longer and unfortunately life is finite. I'm a travel junkie so to go to everywhere I wanted to go I'd probably be gone before I got there.
Let Republicans destroy their states. Washington could charge them a thousand dollars a day to see what a pretty state looks like.
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