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Old 10-18-2018, 05:51 PM
 
Location: Lone Mountain Las Vegas NV
18,058 posts, read 10,350,196 times
Reputation: 8828

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Quote:
Originally Posted by mtl1 View Post
The articles of federation is just a red herring thrown in. The Constitution increased federal power over what the articles of federation did, but that wasn't the debate, and was intended to restrain or define federal power and assert rights of the people. Americans always had guns since it was just an old ancient right. And states and local governments didn't generally or meaningfully interfere with that right.
Please let us not confuse the founders intent. They absolutely intended to establish a set of militia capable of overthrowing the Feds if they went in the wrong direction.

There may be an argument for the right of the citizen to own weapons for self defense from the common law...but the second was to have a population capable of waging war again the feds or any other entity that attempted to tyrannize them.
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Old 10-18-2018, 06:03 PM
 
19,966 posts, read 7,873,534 times
Reputation: 6556
Quote:
Originally Posted by lvmensch View Post
Please let us not confuse the founders intent. They absolutely intended to establish a set of militia capable of overthrowing the Feds if they went in the wrong direction.

There may be an argument for the right of the citizen to own weapons for self defense from the common law...but the second was to have a population capable of waging war again the feds or any other entity that attempted to tyrannize them.
I don't disagree really, and likewise it is why a government would ban and confiscate the guns from the people to prevent an overthrow.
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Old 10-18-2018, 06:41 PM
 
3,366 posts, read 1,606,149 times
Reputation: 1652
Quote:
Originally Posted by lvmensch View Post
Only partially and with significant exceptions.
I can partially arm a bear?
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Old 10-18-2018, 07:13 PM
 
Location: Lone Mountain Las Vegas NV
18,058 posts, read 10,350,196 times
Reputation: 8828
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jimbo302 View Post
I can partially arm a bear?
Only if you are a skilled orthopedic surgeon.
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Old 10-18-2018, 07:23 PM
 
3,366 posts, read 1,606,149 times
Reputation: 1652
Quote:
Originally Posted by lvmensch View Post
Only if you are a skilled orthopedic surgeon.
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Old 10-18-2018, 09:48 PM
 
Location: Midwest City, Oklahoma
14,848 posts, read 8,208,835 times
Reputation: 4590
Quote:
Originally Posted by normstad View Post
A true hero.

Fanatical, non-thinking, dead, hero, but hero nevertheless. What a man. Hope you don't have a family or breed.
Quote:
Originally Posted by jamesvitch View Post
In the end the SC has the last say. They say what the constitution says. This is why its so important to turn it right. I hope Ginsberg dies off soon and we can put another conservative on the court.
Don't forget that the Supreme Court only has power because people believe it has power. If the people stopped believing it has power, it would cease to have power.


As Andrew Jackson famously said, "John Marshall has made his decision; now let him enforce it."

The decisions of the court are unenforceable, because the court has no Army. Only the president has the power to enforce anything. And if the president refuses to enforce a court ruling, that ruling might as well not exist.


As you might remember, one of the Supreme Court rulings required the Federalization of the National Guard, which the president then ordered into the schools/universities. Obviously the courts don't have the power to order the National Guard/Army to do anything.

Nor does the Supreme Court have the power to force the president to do anything. And at any time, the president could take a court order, crumple it up, and chunk it in the trashcan. And as long as the Congress doesn't move to impeach him, and as long as the people support him, the court's rulings become a joke.


If enough people stop believing, it ceases to be true.
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Old 10-18-2018, 10:11 PM
 
10,800 posts, read 3,594,827 times
Reputation: 5951
Quote:
Originally Posted by Redshadowz View Post
Don't forget that the Supreme Court only has power because people believe it has power. If the people stopped believing it has power, it would cease to have power.


As Andrew Jackson famously said, "John Marshall has made his decision; now let him enforce it."

The decisions of the court are unenforceable, because the court has no Army. Only the president has the power to enforce anything. And if the president refuses to enforce a court ruling, that ruling might as well not exist.


As you might remember, one of the Supreme Court rulings required the Federalization of the National Guard, which the president then ordered into the schools/universities. Obviously the courts don't have the power to order the National Guard/Army to do anything.

Nor does the Supreme Court have the power to force the president to do anything. And at any time, the president could take a court order, crumple it up, and chunk it in the trashcan. And as long as the Congress doesn't move to impeach him, and as long as the people support him, the court's rulings become a joke.


If enough people stop believing, it ceases to be true.
So you're not that big on the rule of law then?
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Old 10-18-2018, 10:20 PM
 
Location: Ohio
1,037 posts, read 435,303 times
Reputation: 753
Quote:
Originally Posted by Redshadowz View Post
Don't forget that the Supreme Court only has power because people believe it has power. If the people stopped believing it has power, it would cease to have power.


As Andrew Jackson famously said, "John Marshall has made his decision; now let him enforce it."
And as Justice Jackson said "We are not final because we are right, we are right because we are final".

Quote:
The decisions of the court are unenforceable, because the court has no Army. Only the president has the power to enforce anything. And if the president refuses to enforce a court ruling, that ruling might as well not exist.
The decisions are the court are fully enforceable. If an entity refuses to comply with a SC order, they can order a lower court to hold a Show Cause hearing to determine why they should not be held in Contempt, similar to the Shipp case where the Supreme's held their own Contempt trial.
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Old 10-18-2018, 10:34 PM
 
19,966 posts, read 7,873,534 times
Reputation: 6556
Quote:
Originally Posted by normstad View Post
So you're not that big on the rule of law then?
The legislature is suppose to make the law, not the judiciary or the executive for that matter.
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Old 10-18-2018, 10:42 PM
 
Location: Ohio
1,037 posts, read 435,303 times
Reputation: 753
Quote:
Originally Posted by mtl1 View Post
The legislature is suppose to make the law, not the judiciary or the executive for that matter.
What if Congress gives an Independent government agency Delegated Powers of minimal law making authority. Is that right?
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