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Old 12-02-2021, 12:40 PM
 
Location: San Diego
18,739 posts, read 7,610,204 times
Reputation: 15006

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The 2nd amendment says that since an armed, disciplined population is necessary for security in a free country, the right of normal people to keep and bear arms cannot be taken away or restricted.

This is clearly a flat ban on any govt in the country making any law restricting our ability to purchase, own, and carry a gun. Yet a number of governments (Federal, State, local) have made laws restricting exactly those things.

What should we obey? The 2nd amendment? Or the government officials making the "gun control" laws?
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Old 12-02-2021, 12:49 PM
 
Location: New York Area
35,064 posts, read 17,014,369 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Roboteer View Post
What should we obey? The 2nd amendment? Or the government officials making the "gun control" laws?
The judicial branch construing those laws.
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Old 12-02-2021, 01:46 PM
 
Location: San Diego
18,739 posts, read 7,610,204 times
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Originally Posted by jbgusa View Post
The judicial branch construing those laws.
So we should NOT obey the 2nd amendment if the judicial branch rules it says something it clearly doesn't say?
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Old 12-02-2021, 01:50 PM
 
Location: New York Area
35,064 posts, read 17,014,369 times
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Originally Posted by Roboteer View Post
So we should NOT obey the 2nd amendment if the judicial branch rules it says something it clearly doesn't say?
I have ethical constraints in ever saying a court should be defied.
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Old 12-02-2021, 01:53 PM
 
Location: San Diego
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jbgusa View Post
I have ethical constraints in ever saying a court should be defied.
Got any "ethical constraints" over whether the Supreme Law of the Land should be defied?

Or do you reserve your "contraints" only for courts that can be manipulated?
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Old 12-02-2021, 02:09 PM
 
Location: Midwest City, Oklahoma
14,848 posts, read 8,208,835 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kdog View Post
Thanks, not sure how I confused the author since I've studied the document thoroughly. Interesting factoids, but it doesn't counteract that they're talking about a well-regulated militia. Of course it's composed of the body of the people, but a select corps of them.
"Minutemen were civilian colonists who independently formed militia companies self-trained in weaponry, tactics, and military strategies, comprising the American colonial partisan militia during the American Revolutionary War...

In the colony of Massachusetts Bay, all able-bodied men between the ages of 16 and 60 were required to participate in their local militia. The militia typically assembled as an entire unit in each town two to four times a year for training during peacetime but, as the inevitability of war became apparent, the militia trained three to four times a week.

Most Colonial militia units were provided neither arms nor uniforms and were required to equip themselves. Many simply wore their own farmers' or workmen's clothes and, in some cases, they wore cloth hunting frocks."


https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Minutemen

A regulated militia just means a militia that follows rules and exercises laid out by the state. It does not mean the National Guard. Many/most militias were volunteer forces.

But let's pretend that the purpose of the Second Amendment was only in regards to well-regulated militias, it was still created as an individual right of "the people", not of the militias or of the states.

Point is, if you don't like the Second Amendment, change it, or stack the court with left-wing judges and see if you start a Civil War.

As it stands the Second Amendment says, "The right of the people to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed". That isn't vague or confusing language, and no one in 1789 thought it was vague or confusing language. The only people who pretend it is vague and confusing are the people who want gun-control.
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Old 12-02-2021, 02:32 PM
 
Location: San Diego
18,739 posts, read 7,610,204 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Redshadowz View Post
As it stands the Second Amendment says, "The right of the people to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed".
It also offers an explanation: "Since a militia is necessary". But even if it left off that explanation, its command would be unchanged, as you pointed out
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Old 12-02-2021, 02:52 PM
 
13,212 posts, read 21,829,904 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Redshadowz View Post
"Minutemen were civilian colonists who independently formed militia companies self-trained in weaponry, tactics, and military strategies, comprising the American colonial partisan militia during the American Revolutionary War...

In the colony of Massachusetts Bay, all able-bodied men between the ages of 16 and 60 were required to participate in their local militia. The militia typically assembled as an entire unit in each town two to four times a year for training during peacetime but, as the inevitability of war became apparent, the militia trained three to four times a week.

Most Colonial militia units were provided neither arms nor uniforms and were required to equip themselves. Many simply wore their own farmers' or workmen's clothes and, in some cases, they wore cloth hunting frocks."


https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Minutemen

A regulated militia just means a militia that follows rules and exercises laid out by the state. It does not mean the National Guard. Many/most militias were volunteer forces.

But let's pretend that the purpose of the Second Amendment was only in regards to well-regulated militias, it was still created as an individual right of "the people", not of the militias or of the states.

Point is, if you don't like the Second Amendment, change it, or stack the court with left-wing judges and see if you start a Civil War.

As it stands the Second Amendment says, "The right of the people to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed". That isn't vague or confusing language, and no one in 1789 thought it was vague or confusing language. The only people who pretend it is vague and confusing are the people who want gun-control.
You still haven't read Federalist 29 I see and choose to make up your own definitions instead. OK, I'm done.
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Old 12-02-2021, 03:07 PM
 
25,445 posts, read 9,805,591 times
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It would help if people actually understood the meaning and context of the second amendment, but sadly many don't.
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Old 12-02-2021, 03:31 PM
 
Location: Anderson, IN
6,844 posts, read 2,846,127 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Roboteer View Post
The 2nd amendment says that since an armed, disciplined population is necessary for security in a free country, the right of normal people to KBA cannot be restricted.

This is clearly a flat ban on any govt in the country making any law restricting our ability to purchase, own, and carry a gun. Yet a number of governments (Federal, State, local) have made laws restricting exactly those things.

What should we obey? The 2nd amendment? Or the government officials making the "gun control" laws?



Well. it doesn't say "normal people" it says "the people", weirdos included (lucky for me ).
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