Ben Carson Calls Slaves Immigrants (support, news, country, against)

[FinsterRufus]

Originally Posted by Salmonburgher

Irrelevant to the definition of "immigrant".

Immigrant

A person who comes to live permanently in a foreign country.

Where in the above definition, which is taken from the Oxford Dictionary, is it indicated that an immigrant must necessarily go to a foreign country to live permanently of his/her own free will?

Can you show me? I don't see it.

Let's look at the Cambridge Dictionary:

Immigrant

a person who has come to a different country in order to live there permanently

Nothing about free will in that definition, either.

How 'bout Merriam-Webster Dictionary:

Immigrant

a person who comes to a country to take up permanent residence

No element of free will there, either.




OK, now let's look at usage of the term immigrant with the word, slaves in just a couple of examples that existed previous to BC's recent statements:

Here is the title of an article that appeared in December 2014 on the website of Operation People for Peace, Inc.

ARE THE IMMIGRANTS OF 2014 AMERICA LIKE THE BLACK IMMIGRANT SLAVES OF 1814 AMERICA?

Here is a chart regarding the various types of immigrants arriving in the American colonies prepared by Howard County Public School System and the Center for History Education at the University of Maryland, Baltimore County:

Chart of Estimated Immigration to the American 13 Colonies 1607-1775 - From Slaves, Convicts, and Servants to Free Passengers: The Transformation of Immigration in the Era of the American Revolution. The Journal of American History, 85.1,44.

Note carefully that in the second example, slaves, convicts, servants, and free passengers are all types of immigrants.

Looks to me like Ben Carson is correct.

They didn't "come" they were "dragged", "kidnapped", "abducted".

If someone in a drug cartel kidnaps you and drags you over the border to live in a basement against your will for the rest of your natural born life, do we call you an abducted American citizen or a Mexican immigrant?

[Salmonburgher]

More:

From a paper published in 2009 by Rhonda V. Magee, a Law Professor at the University of San Francisco:

Abstract - Slavery as Immigration? In this essay, the author argues that transatlantic slavery was, in significant part, an immigration system of a particularly pernicious sort -- a system of forced migration immigration aimed at fulfilling the nascent country's needs for a controllable labor population, and desire for a racialized one. As such, the law and policy of chattel slavery should be viewed as perhaps the most important historical antecedent to contemporary immigration law regarding low- and unskilled labor in the United States. Following an analysis of the treatment of chattel slavery in general immigration history scholarship, and in scholarship on the history of immigration law, the author concludes that immigration law texts must include a discussion of chattel slavery that properly locates that system as a forerunner of modern immigration law and policy, and immigration scholars should devote more attention to chattel slavery. She concludes with a discussion of the broader implications of such a reframing for the American national community as a whole.

Note: The Professor is Black:



I am willing to bet that the Professor understands that the African slaves who were forcefully emigrated to the Americas had a significantly more difficult life than did those Europeans who emigrated to the Americas of their own free will, and yet, the Professor has not problem labeling the African slaves... in fact, she argues that the African slaves were indeed, immigrants.

[Jo48]

Not all slaves themselves were immigrants. Illegal Slave Trade in America was a way to make money, and keep the supply coming.

A while ago I saw a story on PBS about a Black College Professor, born in NYC, who was kidnapped up North and sold into Slavery down South. Apparently, it was common before the Civil War. He wrote and published his Autobiography.

While somewhere in his ancestry there were "immigrant slaves", his own parents were also born in America and were Free Blacks.

He had to hide the fact that he was educated and could read and write or he would be put to death, but he eventually was able to smuggle a letter back up North to his Congressman, and made his way back to freedom.

So, yes, not all Slaves themselves were Immigrants. Kidnapped American Born Slaves. I suppose Ben Carson never heard of this?

[Oldhag1]

Originally Posted by Jo48

Not all slaves themselves were immigrants. Illegal Slave Trade in America was a way to make money, and keep the supply coming.

A while ago I saw a story on PBS about a Black College Professor, born in NYC, who was kidnapped up North and sold into Slavery down South. Apparently, it was common before the Civil War. He wrote and published his Autobiography.

While somewhere in his ancestry there were "immigrant slaves", his own parents were also born in America and were Free Blacks.

He had to hide the fact that he was educated and could read and write or he would be put to death, but he eventually was able to smuggle a letter back up North to his Congressman, and made his way back to freedom.

So, yes, not all Slaves themselves were Immigrants. Kidnapped American Born Slaves. I suppose Ben Carson never heard of this?

What part of this sentence indicates that Ben Carson was unaware that some slaves were born on American soil?

“That’s what America is about, a land of dreams and opportunity,” Carson said, USA Today reports. “There were other immigrants who came here in the bottom of slave ships, worked even longer, even harder for less.”

Plus, what does your story have to do with whether slaves taken from Africa were immigrants or not? Sheesh.

[Salmonburgher]

Originally Posted by FinsterRufus

If someone in a drug cartel kidnaps you and drags you over the border to live in a basement against your will for the rest of your natural born life, do we call you an abducted American citizen or a Mexican immigrant?

If I subsequently remained in Mexico permanently, you could call me either.

[Toyman at Jewel Lake]

More faux outrage and drama from the left? I am thinking liberal arts schools have to start handing out Binkys with their diplomas. A million snowflakes melting all at once.

[Chance and Change]

Originally Posted by Salmonburgher

And yet, by definition, they were still emigrated to the Americas.

Hence, by definition, the African slaves who were emigrated to the Americas were immigrants in the Americas.

Everyone EXCEPT the NATIVE AMERICAN INDIANS, AND THE MEXICAN PEOPLE, are from some other place, the blacks that did IMMIGRATE HERE, do so long before Columbus ever dreamed of coming here and falsely claiming to have found something that was never lost in the first place.
One can't consider slavery transport under the term of immigrant [color="Purple"]with the same flavor of min]d, as those who came willingly[/COLOR, because it was not something that came from a free will to want to uproot their lives. The term does not fit nor does the urban usage of the term immigrant fit, especially in the context of generalized interpretations of meaning that most who fit under the "immigrate" term, do so "willingly". However, in verbiage usage of the word "immigrant" the context may well be of matter when this is spoken about.

One thing is very certain. when it comes to People whom are here, the long presence of black people has far more history than many of the "johnny come lately people who came in the 1800's" .... even those who came in the early 1900's... who want to PRETEND, they are more American than the black people who have been here 100's of years ahead of those who came later.

Immigrant or Not... One can't diminish slavery by the use of the term immigrant, because it was "forced incarceration and enslavement", not immigration. by fact of presence, Black people by forced labor as well as by contributions under duress and contribution of will, have invested more in American than any other group. America would not be what it is today if not for the labor of the slaves... which is to say, if not for the presence of black people.
White man's history in America is as a plunderer and abuser, he started with the Indians, and has not stopped, and even today, with the want to build a pipeline near and under the water source of which the Indian's have spoken and stood against it for environmental sake, the white man and his lust for money, violates anything and everything he can, to plunder for the sake of his own vain greed. This should trouble white people of today, as much as it troubles any other people.
There are many "white people" who do not support nor condone the plundering nature and mentality of the greed consumption's of "some" white men.

There are ways to do things, which can be done with the respect of the people, the land and this earth as a whole, but the greed of white man, will forgo those respects in lieu of the quickest means to pursue profit at the expense of anything and everything he can.
That is a matter that is of great issue today in the American Society..... Many Many white people, do not support Plundering, be it by any white man or other ethnic groups. But, what society does know, plundering of such sorts is characteristically a white man element more than it is a characteristic of any other ethnic group on this continent.
This is not Racist talk, this is talking about what exist and what has been the history of Ethnic Distinction of Characteristics among ethnic groups in America.

The Grand Questions is, "why is white man of such desperation's, and such greed aims, and driven to try and usurp anyone and anything? It is a question that white man, has ducked and dodged and fought against addressing for Centuries.
Why he can't digest that "Ethnic Teamwork" is best suited for mankind, in this country and around the globe, willingness by and through the engaging efforts of men to be team player contributors in society.

We should have no hungry children in American, Education should be free for all, up to and including second and third tier advancements of professional label of certifications, we should have no homeless people, and over the span of American, there should be no dire poverty. Health Care should not be a game of "get rich quick" or leave people in despair when often times it is Federal Grant Money that has supported much of discovery, as well as Grant Funded Treks Around the Globe to extract from every culture on every continent information and knowledge of things used for medicinal function.

History has show much... and what is shows best is the time and experience of when contributions are within the frame work of equality within respect of individual, advancements are achieved.

The future of Young people will not run from truths, they are being given and exposed to information that was once hidden, and denied to be presented, they are being made aware of things which structure tried to bury and even tried to bury the concept of considerations to discover and uncover.

The young generation that is at the youthful pre-teen ages in society today, are learning how to overcome the malice of mind of the past and the racist bigotry, the racist ignorance and the discrimination's of race and economic class madness.

This situations of Trump agenda, will push them even more to deal with truths and expose bias and bigoted madness, because the young see and they are aware and do not like the discriminatory demeanor that is being promoted from the highest office nor do they like the ways that the focus on extracting money, has chosen a pathway to insult and diminish the integrity of the nations and its people as a whole.

Young white people are many who don't want to be defined by their conduct of their ancestry, equally so young minorities do not want to be defined by the history of slavery or the subjugations of segregation nor the elements of racial discrimination's.
Our young today... want not part of that madness and as they grow and move along their pathways, they will transform this nation and the ideology of humane awareness and respect of persons to be the standard in society.

Today, the young people whom are entering University years and those whom find their path through skills of tech and vocations, do so, not with a concept to accept any barrier of ethnicity and discrimination's, and those even being taught in the Ivy League system and those yet to enter, are now aware of the economic imbalances and they don't like it.. They will change it.. Some have a parental system that tries to drive them into the protections of wealth for the wealthy, but in the hearts and minds of the young, they don't agree, they know that the world functions best when there is economic parity among the people, and the voice of the people matters, more than the voice of the wealthy trying to rule and dictate over and unto the people.

Most don't see this, but then again, most won't engage young people in meaningful dialog to grasp their ideals and thoughts and their wants for a better society.

[Salmonburgher]

Originally Posted by Toyman at Jewel Lake

More faux outrage and drama from the left? I am thinking liberal arts schools have to start handing out Binkys with their diplomas. A million snowflakes melting all at once.

I'm not sure that they're faking it!

Ignorance is bliss, some say. But, ignorance can be painful, too, it appears!

[Jimmyp25]

Ben Carson doesn't need brain surgery . Democrats do! Somehow when the for illegal goes into their brain . Their brain processes the word and regurgitates it into the word "citizen"... something definitely wrong there

[Oldhag1]

Originally Posted by Chance and Change

Everyone EXCEPT the NATIVE AMERICAN INDIANS, AND THE MEXICAN PEOPLE, are from some other place, the blacks that did IMMIGRATE HERE, do so long before Columbus ever dreamed of coming here and falsely claiming to have found something that was never lost in the first place.
One can't consider slavery transport under the term of immigrant, because it was not something that came from a free will to want to uproot their lives. The term does not fit nor does the urban usage of the term immigrant, especially in the context of generalized interpretations of meaning that most who fit under the "immigrate" term, do so "willingly".

This is like beating a dead horse. The concept of free will is not part of the definition of immigrant. It is a person who had previously lived in a foreign county or region that traveled to a new country or region and is now permanently living there. Some immigrants are voluntary, some are involuntary. That may not meet YOUR definition of immigrant but Mr. Carson is not oboligated to use your definition instead of the dictionary one.