Here It Is! Speaker Ryan's and GOP's "Repeal & Replace" ACA Bill (capitalist, bomb)

[evilcart]

Originally Posted by Hoonose

Or...The new drug would never be developed, as that can take one huge investment. And if going to cash for HC means that there will only be few future potential buyers at some low price, then it could too easily be a losing business proposition.

naw mate. Those drug developers charge more in the USA because they CAN, not because they need too.


It is super simple economics that are taught to high school kids. the current system allows pharma lots of pricing power in the USA. meanwhile they sell the drug elsewhere for a lot less.

[OICU812]

Originally Posted by evilcart

naw mate. Those drug developers charge more in the USA because they CAN, not because they need too.


It is super simple economics that are taught to high school kids. the current system allows pharma lots of pricing power in the USA. meanwhile they sell the drug elsewhere for a lot less.

Have you ever thought that we in the USA are paying higher prices to offset the lower prices paid elsewhere?

[Hoonose]

Originally Posted by OICU812

Universal Heath Care will be just as stupid as a universal car manufacturer would be.

If the thought of nameless, faceless bureaucrats designing your car choice for you, is viewed as a great thing, then by all means, jump on the UHC bandwagon. After all, having the state design cars worked out great for customers in the former Soviet Union.

I am not a proponent of UHC, but the public option.

That being said, UHC would be like Medicare, a hugely successful program for many millions of seniors. Successful on the patient and administrative side, and mostly on the delivery side with some caveats. UHC would be similar, but expanding downward in age is progressively easier as younger patients have less medical risk.

Medicare works because the delivery is mainly in the private sector, and we want to keep it that way. The problem can be though with doc reimbursements. They need to remain adequate otherwise docs will buck, and that could be a very serious roadblock to UHC.

[tamajane]

Prosecuting and jailing poor people for being sick? I hope this is just venting and not serious. If the provider chooses they can pursue a lawsuit and attach wages, that is up to them.

[Hoonose]

Originally Posted by ringwise

If it's NOT an emergency, then you don't get care. Period. If it is an emergency, then you must pay for it. Make payments, pay cash or use insurance.

The patient still needs the evaluation/triage. If it is not a true emergency the patient could be diverted to a lesser center. This all means that the ER takes on some different liability/responsibility if something goes wrong with that patient who is diverted.

If it is a true emergency, the treatment MUST be rendered without any question of ability to pay. PERIOD. This is EMTALA.

https://www.cms.gov/regulations-and-...lation/emtala/

[workingclasshero]

Originally Posted by DC at the Ridge

You make a good point. But the bitter truth is that single-payer is the only option that gives the government the leverage to lower health costs and to do so quickly. And lowering health costs soon is the only solution to the economic fiasco facing this country.

but they (the government) cant lower much..the best the government could do is lower some prescription medicines

you will be real sorry if you think singlepayer can negotiate anything

we've seen what a 'government option' is like...just look at the dept of health HORROR CLINICS

oh and its NEVER free.... as a taxpayer you cant afford singlepayer


national health care..or singlepayer..or universal health care...cant be done without killing the taxpayer

national health care or mediciad for all.. or whatever you want to call it will cost 3 trillion to 6 trillion YEARLY and ALWAYS going up

there are only 140 million tax FILERS of which 47% dont pay anything or nearly nothing...so there are only about 70-75 million tax PAYERS

are you a taxpayer....then you wont be able to afford medicare for all (which is NOT a 100% singlepayer( it is a 80/20 insurance)


we've seen what a 'government option' is like...just look at the dept of health HORROR CLINICS

oh and its NEVER free.... as a taxpayer you cant afford singlepayer

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singlepayer wont save you a dime.... but if you are a taxpayer you sure will be screwed

if the payer (government in this case) says the payment is xxx, yet the provider NEEDS yyy to cover all his over head, then its not just about a payment...we have many (some say as many as 1500) cost of living areas within the usa.... that's one of the key things to remember is that one size does not fit all


with UHC you cant GUARENTEE of QUALITY care (look at the health dept horror clinics)

you (the taxpayer) cant afford singlepayer aka uhc....unless we change the tax system

singlepayer ( total government funding(taxpayer) and total government control) is NOT what we need...not if we EXPECT the QUALITY of care

when you look at the COSTS of ACTUAL care (not insurance) and the OVERHEAD costs associated with the care..the cost would be astronomical to cover 325 million people

and lets look at the some other numbers:

the ACTUAL cost just to help americans with Alzheimer's is over 400 billion every year

and let's not forget:

Obesity rates among ALL OECD nations increased in recent years, with the highest rate in the U.S. at 37.3% -- which means one in 3 Americans is by definition obese.----costing 270 billion per year and will grow to 344 billion within the next 2 years
New Data Shows Obesity Costs Will Grow to $344 Billion by 2018 | Partnership to Fight Chronic Disease



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number of americans getting cancer (new cases) per year 1.9 million for a total of 25 million people being treated (fighting) each year...each year at least 570,000 die from cancer....the cost is over 250 billion. and expected to be 290 billion by 2020




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number of americans with heart disease: 29.2 million and of those..((Number of visits with heart disease as primary diagnosis: 17 million ))((Number of discharges with heart disease as first-listed diagnosis: 4.9 million)).....900,000 people in the USA die from heart disease annually....the cost 590 billion annually
will cardiac care be covered under a singlepayer...or would that massive expense be classified as ''not covered'' or "sorry you smoke, or eat too much" not covered??


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number of americans in full pledged nursing homes: 2.5 million...... the average cost Adult Day Health Care,.20,000 per year......assisted living facility 45,000 per year....nursing home (semi-private room),.85,000 per year.......nursing home (private room),.96,000
number of americans in all levels of nursing homes and assisted living....12 million (Annually 11,995,100 people receive support from the 5 main long-term care service; home health agencies (5,742,500), nursing homes (2,383,700), hospices (1,544,500), residential care communities (913,300) and adult day service centers (373,200)...............total cost of long term care 590 billion annually...and going up every year https://www.genworth.com/corporate/a...t-of-care.html

will nursing homes be covered under a singlepayer...or would that massive expense be classified as ''not covered''??


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More than 26 million Americans have significant vision loss.((a total of 85 million Americans have potentially blinding eye diseases. )) (((hmmm more than 26 million americans are blind or going blind.....that's more than Norway, Finland, Denmark, Switzerland, and Austria COMBINED TOTAL population....)))......The cost of vision loss, including direct costs and lost productivity, is estimated to exceed $141 billion
Cost of Vision Problems — Discussion


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number of americans with diabetes: 31 million....total cost 325 billion per year


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number of americans with asthma: 27 million....Each day 11 Americans die from asthma.......annual costs 76 billion per yearand increasing






while some of those may overlap...look at those numbers that's over 160 million with MAJOR health problems....costly problems...........we will ALWAYS be the largest spender in the world.........we have the 3rd highest population in the world (next to china and India) and we have more people (total, not a percentage) with major problems than any other country in Europe..........I just showed you at least 160 million people with cancer, heart, blindness, diabetes, asthma.......that's more than France and great Britain COMBINED for their total populations.


so what are we saying we should FORCE doctors and nurse to work for minimum wage. and have offices in huts

when you pay that doctor $100 ,, its not 100 dollars going into his pocket...there are lots of other COSTS

how are you going to control the cost of medical equipment(mri or x-ray machines, etc)??????most xray machine are made in Denmark

how are you going to control the cost of the rising electric bills the doctors/hospitals are facing????

how are you going to control the rising property tax/rent/mortgage that doctors face?????

how are you going to control the cost of supplies(gauze, plaster, silk, rubber, polystyrene( a oil product)?????especially some supplies that aren't even american

how are you going to control the cost of people salaries???? a maximum wage???

how they are going to control the employment costs for Doctors, nurses, technicians, hospital food operators, hospital linen cleaning service, custodial services, medical transcribers........are you going to 'nationalize' every profession that is even remotely connected to medicine????

how are they going to control malpractice INSURANCE COSTS?????

things are expensive

for example the average hospital uses a lot of electricity...about 450,000 a month...that's over 5 million dollars in electric costs yearly.....you are not going to cut that piece of overhead

when you go to the local doctor and pay him/her 100..its not 100 going into their pocket

they have lots of overhead costs:
rent/lease/mortgage
property taxes
electric costs
equipment costs(and many pieces of equipment are not even made here)
cleaning costs
supply costs
personnel costs
etc


singlepayer will not control these costs


don't you get it... medicine (like anyother SERVICE) costs money,,(,money that our government doesn't have)

want to know A BIG REASON why its lower in those other countries.??? salaries.....a nurse in France(actually most of europe) makes about 1500-1800 a month(in us dollars)..that's 18-20000 a year.....meanwhile according to payscale.com the average Rn makes 40-78,000 in the usa


so what is it that singlepayer supporters 'think' or 'believe' we will be able to negotiate ??? medicines maybe....salaries not likely...other supply costs not likely.....property taxes and overhead...not a chance


singlepayer would cost between 3.5 TRILLION and 6 trillion ANNUALLY.....and will INCREASE everyyear...the taxpayers cant afford that

[Hoonose]

Originally Posted by ringwise

That's catastrophic. And the ONLY thing insurance should cover.

What about any/all the long term complications of the accident?

At what level of dollars or medical/severity is something deemed catastrophic? And over what time period must those dollars be spent? And does that change with income or ability to pay?

[workingclasshero]

Originally Posted by evilcart

naw mate. Those drug developers charge more in the USA because they CAN, not because they need too.


It is super simple economics that are taught to high school kids. the current system allows pharma lots of pricing power in the USA. meanwhile they sell the drug elsewhere for a lot less.

and the answer is the FDA

our own government is the ones causing us to pay more

[Hoonose]

Originally Posted by DC at the Ridge

You make a good point. But the bitter truth is that single-payer is the only option that gives the government the leverage to lower health costs and to do so quickly. And lowering health costs soon is the only solution to the economic fiasco facing this country.

Single payer might lower the cost of some individual medical encounters, but there will be many more encounters. Overall HC spending will go up, not down!

[DC at the Ridge]

Originally Posted by OICU812

Have you ever thought that we in the USA are paying higher prices to offset the lower prices paid elsewhere?

Yes. We are subsidizing healthcare costs for the rest of the world. And we can't afford to do that anymore.