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Let's say someone is paying but becomes ill and can't work, can't make the premiums even on the catastrophic policy. Medicaid won't be there after 2020. Have you ever been poor in America?
I have been lowish-income right after college and before my and my spouse's careers took off, but nothing we couldn't manage. One simply CHOOSES to not live beyond their means. I haven't been poor in America because I have been responsible enough to make sure that does not happen to me. Similarly, my parents made sure we wouldn't be poor before they even considered starting a family.
There's a responsibility factor that many on the left seem to be missing. The fact that some CHOOSE to be irresponsible does not behoove those who are responsible to foot their bills. Do we voluntarily contribute to charity to try to alleviate some of the issues the poor are facing? Yes. Should we be forced by threat of property seizure and imprisonment to pay their bills for them? No.
And, yes, because I'm responsible, I have a disability insurance policy that kicks in if/when needed, including the suspension of insurance premiums upon disability.
I have been lowish-income right after college and before my and my spouse's careers took off, but nothing we couldn't manage. One simply CHOOSES to not live beyond their means. I haven't been poor in America because I have been responsible enough to make sure that does not happen to me. Similarly, my parents made sure we wouldn't be poor before they even considered starting a family.
There's a responsibility factor that many on the left seem to be missing. The fact that some CHOOSE to be irresponsible does not behoove those who are responsible to foot their bills. Do we voluntarily contribute to charity to try to alleviate some of the issues the poor are facing? Yes. Should we be forced by threat of property seizure and imprisonment to pay their bills for them? No.
And, yes, because I'm responsible, I have a disability insurance policy that kicks in if/when needed, including the suspension of insurance premiums upon disability.
You haven't been poor in America because you weren't born into poverty. You don't seem to understand that.
Miiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiilllllllllllllllll lllliiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiooooooooooooooonnnnnnnnnnsss sssssssssssss of people have autoimmune or genetic related diseases. They can live healthy lifestyles all they want yet still need multimillion dollar treatments due to an inherited disorder.
Can that not be predicted? Why procreate if you know the result might be offspring with extremely costly health problems, unless you can afford to pay for that, or for an insurance policy that will cover it?
People do still get billed though, and if they can't pay, the bill is sent to collections and the person's credit is ruined
Also, the costs of care go up and that's passed along to the people who DO pay their bills.
So, yeah... this affects us all whether we want it to or not.
Might as well have a system that covers everyone. A basic system. If people want access to higher-tier services that are not on the basic plan, they can always buy supplemental health insurance.
Which is what happens in some countries. I think Australia has a setup like that and there are some countries in the EU that do as well.
Makes sense to me. Provide a general standard of care to EVERYONE. If you want to buy extra and have the money, go for it.
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I agree with most you say. My wife is a prime example. $270K last year for her lymphoma. Over a $M already this year as we suffered a highway head on crash on 1/1. She comes home next week. No faults of ours/hers.
But my conflict with you is in physician pay. And I am a physician. Hospitals do well, pharma does well. As physicians we have mostly been capped by Medicare and other third parties for decades now. In primary care I have had no substantial raise since 1988, so we lag like most of the middle class. Of course we started higher so it is less a struggle.
But if we docs are not satisfied with our basic HC reimbursements in a more universal system, it will not fly. Docs will make that so.
I agree with you as well, Hoonose! Doctors should get paid well no argument there! However, our government needs to do something where everyone is insured and can actually afford it!
I'm sorry about your wife and I pray for a quick recovery! My husband fell asleep at the wheel due to work exhaustion. Long story short he has had 4 facial reconstructive surgeries. He is still having treatment for his eyesight in his left eye and other issues as a result. Had we not had insurance we would be bankrupt as his care has topped over a million and is ongoing. We actually have very good insurance that is employer paid so we are very fortunate. Even with that though we have paid thousands of dollars to the point that we are hurting financially. I was a stay at home mom of 2 young girls and now I'm working. I have no problem with that!! What I have a problem with is my 63 year old mother can't retire because she can't afford healthcare till 65. Not only that she is currently on ACA because her employer does not offer healthcare insurance. Her premiums with a high deductible are over $800 a month! For 1 person! It's insane! She has thought about going without. This is what this country has become and it's very said. Very sad that other countries give their citizens free healthcare and free college tuition. The U.S. is doing something wrong!!
I agree with most you say. My wife is a prime example. $270K last year for her lymphoma. Over a $M already this year as we suffered a highway head on crash on 1/1. She comes home next week. No faults of ours/hers.
But my conflict with you is in physician pay. And I am a physician. Hospitals do well, pharma does well. As physicians we have mostly been capped by Medicare and other third parties for decades now. In primary care I have had no substantial raise since 1988, so we lag like most of the middle class. Of course we started higher so it is less a struggle.
But if we docs are not satisfied with our basic HC reimbursements in a more universal system, it will not fly. Docs will make that so.
I think that the system needs to ensure that doctors are adequately reimbursed.
I also think that allowing people to buy private insurance to supplement their basic insurance could be a boon for docs because those patients would be outside the doctor's obligation to see X number of patients on the universal plan (think of that plan like Medicaid is right now).
So, basically, it's a plus overall. And, hospitals would see everyone, either way.
Ex. A friend of mine was getting IVF in Australia about 7-8 years ago. She got X number of shots at IVF through the single payer plan. After that, she had to use her private insurance for additional tries, because the single payer had coverage limits for stuff like IVF.
She used the private insurance and that opened up more types of procedures that she could consider and that would be covered after she met her deductible and so forth.
I do not see this being bad for doctors, not once fully implemented.
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Pay close attention to what that scatter plot chart tells us... Note that the highest levels of government benefits and services are provided by countries (Sweden, Denmark, Finland, Belgium) in which taxes are flat (everyone pays the same tax rate) or regressive (shown as the negative values, meaning a greater tax burden is placed on those with lower incomes). And note where the USA falls on the graph. The USA has the most progressive tax system and therefore is least able to fund progressives' societal goals because the tax base is too narrow, and therefore generates insufficient tax revenue.
(Scatter Plot info, for those who need more explanation of what Scatter Plots tell us: Scatter Plots - Math is Fun)
I agree with you as well, Hoonose! Doctors should get paid well no argument there! However, our government needs to do something where everyone is insured and can actually afford it!
I'm sorry about your wife and I pray for a quick recovery! My husband fell asleep at the wheel due to work exhaustion. Long story short he has had 4 facial reconstructive surgeries. He is still having treatment for his eyesight in his left eye and other issues as a result. Had we not had insurance we would be bankrupt as his care has topped over a million and is ongoing. We actually have very good insurance that is employer paid so we are very fortunate. Even with that though we have paid thousands of dollars to the point that we are hurting financially. I was a stay at home mom of 2 young girls and now I'm working. I have no problem with that!! What I have a problem with is my 63 year old mother can't retire because she can't afford healthcare till 65. Not only that she is currently on ACA because her employer does not offer healthcare insurance. Her premiums with a high deductible are over $800 a month! For 1 person! It's insane! She has thought about going without. This is what this country has become and it's very said. Very sad that other countries give their citizens free healthcare and free college tuition. The U.S. is doing something wrong!!
No they don't. Even the U.K. had free tuition years ago and now it's not free anymore. The level of heathcare in other UK is pretty basic. They misdiagnosed my MIL diabetes problem until she had ganggreen and they saw her toe off. I'll be more concern with any complicated surgery there.
So if a young guy rides a motorcycle and has a catastrophic accident but does not have insurance what should we do with that guy? Just let him die in the street because he's too young to be able to pay the bill for his care?
Two CHOICES involved in that example.
1) The CHOICE to engage in an activity that has a statistical rate of serious injury.
2) The CHOICE to not buy a catastrophic insurance policy.
Again, the responsibility factor is an issue.
The fact that some CHOOSE to be irresponsible does not behoove those who are responsible to foot their bills. Do we voluntarily contribute to charity to try to alleviate some of the issues they are facing? Yes. Is anyone free to start/run fundraisers for the irresponsible person in such a case? Yes. Should we be forced by threat of property seizure and imprisonment to pay their bills for them? No.
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