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View Poll Results: Take them down or leave them up?
Take them down. They're offensive. 133 36.14%
Leave them up. It's history. 235 63.86%
Voters: 368. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 06-08-2017, 05:12 PM
 
Location: The South
7,469 posts, read 6,206,526 times
Reputation: 12965

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Quote:
Originally Posted by green_mariner View Post
Looking at the list of people that donated, it isn't only Black people who want those Confederate statues down.
At the moment they only need $8120 to reach their goal. You should just write them a check.

 
Old 06-08-2017, 05:28 PM
 
Location: *
13,242 posts, read 4,886,150 times
Reputation: 3461
Quote:
Originally Posted by green_mariner View Post
Well, it's on private property, so it's being allowed to stay. Personally, I would never live in that part of Texas.
Quote:
Originally Posted by FickleyCouch17243 View Post
People should be able to honor what they want on their property or person. And other people should be able to make it clear they disagree.
The protests & rallies are re: monuments defending the Confederacy built on American public land.

The reason why I cited the one in Southeast Texas is because it's being built in the present day.
 
Old 06-08-2017, 05:31 PM
 
Location: *
13,242 posts, read 4,886,150 times
Reputation: 3461
Quote:
Originally Posted by Biker53 View Post
The Confederacy is not my issue. My family was on the Union side. I have no Southern roots. In fact you couldn't pay me enough to live in the South. The culture does not appeal to me and I hate the climate. Paradise for me is live and let live Northern New England, both culture and climate.

I have not told blacks to get over it but rather have asked several times what is the end goal. The discussion is about statues but nobody is saying whether the black community will be satisfied if they are all gone or whether there is in fact a list of next steps that will be moved on to after the statues are gone.
It's not an issue solely for the black community, it's an issue for the American community.
 
Old 06-08-2017, 05:54 PM
 
72,842 posts, read 62,249,253 times
Reputation: 21795
Quote:
Originally Posted by ChiGeekGuest View Post
It's not an issue solely for the black community, it's an issue for the American community.
If you look at the petition that was posted on this thread, it is not only Blacks who want that Confederate monument taken down in St. Louis. People of other groups want it down too. It is an American problem.

I have to think about this. The South has so many things to be proud of. Jazz, blues, gospel music, various writers(Eudora Welty, William Faulkner, Richard Wright, Alice Walker, Flannery O'Connor, Thomas Lanier "Tennessee" Williams, John Kennedy Toole, etc). There are so many symbols to represent the South with. Magnolia trees grow throughout the South. There are so many symbols to represent the South. Why pick a symbol that reflects tearing apart the USA with a very ugly cause in mind?
 
Old 06-08-2017, 06:00 PM
 
3,538 posts, read 1,319,547 times
Reputation: 1462
Quote:
Originally Posted by Biker53 View Post
I have not told blacks to get over it but rather have asked several times what is the end goal. The discussion is about statues but nobody is saying whether the black community will be satisfied if they are all gone or whether there is in fact a list of next steps that will be moved on to after the statues are gone.
So if the discussion is about the statues coming down why are you pressed about anything beyond that? You clearly have something else on your mind beyond the statues, just openly express that. Because you're trying to safely tiptoe up to a point. This "what will they come for next?" coded slippery slope stuff is weak.


You asking people in a message forum to describe the end goal for millions of blacks who each have their own personal agendas. You're acting as if we had a big meeting and like anybody hear can speak for all blacks. Sillyness. So tired of the people acting like blacks are a monolith of hive minded.
 
Old 06-08-2017, 06:02 PM
 
72,842 posts, read 62,249,253 times
Reputation: 21795
Quote:
Originally Posted by ChiGeekGuest View Post
Do you think there was ever a time when folks actually desired to be reunited? Yearned for healing? President Lincoln was assassinated 5 days after the Confederacy surrendered. 5 days. With an already mourning Country.

It seemed like Mr. Lee & Mr. Davis were suggesting healing here anyway:



Robert E. Lee and Jefferson Davis Wanted The Confederate Flag To Come Down In The 1800's, According To These Books
https://www.bustle.com/articles/9611...n-in-the-1800s

https://books.google.com/books?id=VN...eeting&f=false

If some folks at least were interested in reuniting &/or healing, why the spikes?

I think it's likely we're living through the '3rd Spike' in the present day. The intervals in between seem to be shortening, wonder what that signifies, if anything?
I find it ironic that the persons who were traitors were the ones calling for healing. This likely would have not sat well with many in the South.

Since we both know what the Confederate cause is about, we can say this about the spikes. Anger. Stubbornness. Bigotry.

This third wave, well this is something else I noticed. As soon as Barack Obama was elected President, the amount of people joining hate groups spiked. KKK and racist skinheads saw a spike in membership. The interval in shortening spikes would likely represent some people trying to assert their collective middle finger at the changes in the USA.
 
Old 06-08-2017, 06:31 PM
 
Location: *
13,242 posts, read 4,886,150 times
Reputation: 3461
Quote:
Originally Posted by green_mariner View Post
If you look at the petition that was posted on this thread, it is not only Blacks who want that Confederate monument taken down in St. Louis. People of other groups want it down too. It is an American problem.

I have to think about this. The South has so many things to be proud of. Jazz, blues, gospel music, various writers(Eudora Welty, William Faulkner, Richard Wright, Alice Walker, Flannery O'Connor, Thomas Lanier "Tennessee" Williams, John Kennedy Toole, etc). There are so many symbols to represent the South with. Magnolia trees grow throughout the South. There are so many symbols to represent the South. Why pick a symbol that reflects tearing apart the USA with a very ugly cause in mind?
Wholeheartedly agree however it's as 'preaching to the choir' with me.

Re: the last question? The Occam's razor response, so to speak, would be divisive symbolism is chosen because they desire division.
 
Old 06-08-2017, 06:37 PM
 
Location: *
13,242 posts, read 4,886,150 times
Reputation: 3461
Quote:
Originally Posted by green_mariner View Post
I find it ironic that the persons who were traitors were the ones calling for healing. This likely would have not sat well with many in the South.

Since we both know what the Confederate cause is about, we can say this about the spikes. Anger. Stubbornness. Bigotry.

This third wave, well this is something else I noticed. As soon as Barack Obama was elected President, the amount of people joining hate groups spiked. KKK and racist skinheads saw a spike in membership. The interval in shortening spikes would likely represent some people trying to assert their collective middle finger at the changes in the USA.
Also ironic if they were sincerely calling for a time for healing (after the War) & their followers chose to do the complete opposite to honor them.

The spikes also seem to somewhat coincide with the 'anniversaries' of the American Civil War.
 
Old 06-08-2017, 07:21 PM
 
1,515 posts, read 1,219,840 times
Reputation: 1632
Quote:
Originally Posted by Biker53 View Post
I have not told blacks to get over it but rather have asked several times what is the end goal.
I think their "end goal" is the same as with any invasive species - destruction! They distort history with revisionist lies, pervert culture, commit crimes totally out of proportion to their representation in the population. Look at the remains of cities that they represent a majority in like Chicago, New Orleans, St. Louis, etc. They are a rotting skeleton of what they once were.

On the subject of the War of Northern Aggression (otherwise known as the Civil War) alone, they know nothing of the Federalist vs Anti-Federalist conflict that was the cause! All they think they know is SLAVERY! LOL.

Another civil war is looming. Watch and see. Removing statues won't change anything but may hasten the inevitable.
 
Old 06-08-2017, 08:04 PM
 
3,106 posts, read 1,758,163 times
Reputation: 4557
Quote:
Originally Posted by 8won6 View Post
So if the discussion is about the statues coming down why are you pressed about anything beyond that? You clearly have something else on your mind beyond the statues, just openly express that. Because you're trying to safely tiptoe up to a point. This "what will they come for next?" coded slippery slope stuff is weak.


You asking people in a message forum to describe the end goal for millions of blacks who each have their own personal agendas. You're acting as if we had a big meeting and like anybody hear can speak for all blacks. Sillyness. So tired of the people acting like blacks are a monolith of hive minded.
There is a nice cross section of people here. I gave examples in one of my earlier requests. I assume the initial goal is all statues come down and anything Confederate gets renamed. It is the what next (if anything) that I am curious about. Will there be demands that all Confederate themed museums be closed and that museums that just have Confederate displays remove them? Stone Mountain blasted away? Do people want Confederate cemeteries destroyed? What about plantation houses? Do you want them torn down? There are a whole lot of visible reminders of the Old South out there. How far should the visible erasing of the Confederacy and reminders of slavery go?
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