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View Poll Results: Take them down or leave them up?
Take them down. They're offensive. 133 36.14%
Leave them up. It's history. 235 63.86%
Voters: 368. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 06-11-2017, 12:26 PM
 
72,870 posts, read 62,315,573 times
Reputation: 21803

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Quote:
Originally Posted by ChiGeekGuest View Post
I didn't know anything about Jones County before that movie, it made me want to know more, which is why I left that link as a starting point for anyone else who might be interested.

I was aware, especially as the War progressed, there were many people who became disillusioned (to put it mildly) with the cavalier treatment of the majority of the people living in the Confederate States. Confederate soldiers who abandoned, even if temporarily in order to take care of immediate & important familial situations, were tried & often hung. The 'best' Confederate Generals often lynched 1 of their own men a month.

At the end, the Confederate Administration had to almost be forced to surrender. With all of the lives already lost, an earlier surrender would've prevented even more.

& of course, you know how I feel about the 'Lost Cause' revisionist history ~ it allowed the 'Cold War' to continue for at least a century following the surrender of the Confederacy.
This brings brother vs brother to a whole new level. Lynching one's own men. An earlier surrender would have helped. However, that wasn't going to happen. The South had to get near Stone Age conditions to surrender. Shows how much many would go to the wire just to keep slavery.

Jones County is a case of geography affecting the sentiments. Can't easily grow cotton because of the soil. Little use for slaves. The county is very pro-Union from the start.

I never thought to use the term "Cold War", but that basically what it was during the course of a century. While the rest of the country began to progress, the South regressed into a state of decrepitude, compared to the rest of the nation. That is basically what such a Cold War did. The North and South weren't fighting anymore, but the South looked to other ways to reclaim what it lost. Jim Crow was basically a manifestation of that. Even Jones County was taken over by the "Lost Cause" myth. This is why such statues need to come down. It is way of saying "You lost, get over it or else".

 
Old 06-11-2017, 04:21 PM
 
8,061 posts, read 4,867,795 times
Reputation: 2460
The craziness of this whole thread is many of the Confederate Generals did serve with distinction with the Union Army and fought in the Indian wars and the Mexican conflict of 1846.


The Civil War was about State Rights and the North Intentional lowering Cotton process.


The Slave issue was actually not a big Concern and Preserving the Union was the First Concern.
 
Old 06-11-2017, 05:23 PM
 
Location: The South
7,471 posts, read 6,215,133 times
Reputation: 12965
Quote:
Originally Posted by GHOSTRIDER AZ View Post
The craziness of this whole thread is many of the Confederate Generals did serve with distinction with the Union Army and fought in the Indian wars and the Mexican conflict of 1846.


The Civil War was about State Rights and the North Intentional lowering Cotton process.


The Slave issue was actually not a big Concern and Preserving the Union was the First Concern.
CGM, GM, watch your bobber, you've got a nibble.
 
Old 06-11-2017, 05:30 PM
 
Location: Austin
15,590 posts, read 10,327,145 times
Reputation: 19420
As a direct descendent of ancestors who fought for the North and the South, I deplore those who demand we erase America's history and those men who died.
 
Old 06-11-2017, 05:35 PM
 
51,608 posts, read 25,642,689 times
Reputation: 37793
Quote:
Originally Posted by texan2yankee View Post
As a direct descendent of ancestors who fought for the North and the South, I deplore those who demand we erase America's history.
I deplore those spout nonsense.

No one is demanding that we erase America's history. Who are your trying to fool?

Sane people are demanding that we quit honoring traitors. Move those statues to museums where they belong.
 
Old 06-11-2017, 05:36 PM
 
72,870 posts, read 62,315,573 times
Reputation: 21803
Quote:
Originally Posted by GHOSTRIDER AZ View Post
The craziness of this whole thread is many of the Confederate Generals did serve with distinction with the Union Army and fought in the Indian wars and the Mexican conflict of 1846.


The Civil War was about State Rights and the North Intentional lowering Cotton process.


The Slave issue was actually not a big Concern and Preserving the Union was the First Concern.
Sure it was about states' rights, the rights for states to have slavery. Slavery was a very big deal. The South was afraid of seeing it go, and felt that secession was the only way to preserve such an institution. We have proof in the Articles of Secession. Slavery is mentioned many times in that document. Confederate Constitution was drafted with a clause protecting the right of having slaves. Anyone who says slavery had little to do with it is lying and should never be trusted.

And personally, those Confederate generals should have been tried for treason, period.
 
Old 06-11-2017, 05:42 PM
 
Location: Austin
15,590 posts, read 10,327,145 times
Reputation: 19420
Quote:
Originally Posted by green_mariner View Post
Sure it was about states' rights, the rights for states to have slavery. Slavery was a very big deal. The South was afraid of seeing it go, and felt that secession was the only way to preserve such an institution. We have proof in the Articles of Secession. Slavery is mentioned many times in that document. Confederate Constitution was drafted with a clause protecting the right of having slaves. Anyone who says slavery had little to do with it is lying and should never be trusted.

And personally, those Confederate generals should have been tried for treason, period.
Slavery was wrong. No one denies that. Most Southerners who died fighting for the South weren't wealthy enough to own slaves but wanted to be self-governing. Still an issue today.

The Northern states wrote the narrative for the Civil War as all victors do.
 
Old 06-11-2017, 05:43 PM
 
51,608 posts, read 25,642,689 times
Reputation: 37793
Secessionists tore our nation apart, cost countless lives, and set our nation back big time.

There is nothing to honor or celebrate here, and it is long past time to move on.
 
Old 06-11-2017, 05:44 PM
 
51,608 posts, read 25,642,689 times
Reputation: 37793
Quote:
Originally Posted by green_mariner View Post
Sure it was about states' rights, the rights for states to have slavery. Slavery was a very big deal. The South was afraid of seeing it go, and felt that secession was the only way to preserve such an institution. We have proof in the Articles of Secession. Slavery is mentioned many times in that document. Confederate Constitution was drafted with a clause protecting the right of having slaves. Anyone who says slavery had little to do with it is lying and should never be trusted.

And personally, those Confederate generals should have been tried for treason, period.
Exactly.
 
Old 06-11-2017, 05:49 PM
 
72,870 posts, read 62,315,573 times
Reputation: 21803
Quote:
Originally Posted by texan2yankee View Post
Slavery was wrong. No one denies that. Most Southerners who died fighting for the South weren't wealthy enough to own slaves but wanted to be self-governing. Still an issue today.

The Northern states wrote the narrative for the Civil War as all victors do.
Just because there were southerners not wealthy enough to own slaves didn't mean there weren't sympathizers. Slavery shaped the economy and the way of life in the South in antebellum times. It was preached in the South's churches and politicians supported slavery.

https://www.civilwar.org/learn/artic...herners-fought

Even if many were too poor to own slaves, there were those who sought to be slave owners. I have historic research to back it up. Yes, there was a desire for self-governing. A big part of it was due to the desire to keep slavery.

https://www.civilwar.org/learn/prima...eceding-states
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