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View Poll Results: Take them down or leave them up?
Take them down. They're offensive. 133 36.14%
Leave them up. It's history. 235 63.86%
Voters: 368. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 06-12-2017, 02:42 PM
 
Location: *
13,242 posts, read 4,890,581 times
Reputation: 3461

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Quote:
Originally Posted by brownbagg View Post
My question is , why should we take statue down just because some people feelings are hurt, I'm insulted by the socialist mlk statue but I guarantee its not coming down even though 70 percent are insulted by it
'Insulted' may not be the right way to describe, astonished there are folks in the present day who show the nauseating reverence to the Confederacy's white supremacist cause.

70% of American people are insulted by Martin Luther King?

Get. Real.

Do you still celebrate 'Lee-Jackson-King' Day?

Quote:
...It was not just statuary that kept the Civil War before our eyes every day in those days of segregation. At the all-white school I attended ... At school assemblies, students competed by reading or reciting literary works. A classmate read aloud James Thurber’s famous parody, If Grant Had Been Drinking at Appomattox,which depicts Grant drunkenly surrendering to Lee. The middle-school principal stopped his reading, rebuked him for disrespect to Lee, and dismissed school for the day.

The reverence persists. When Martin Luther King Jr.’s birthday was made a federal holiday in 1983, the state of Virginia combined it with an established holiday on Lee’s birthday as (I am not making this up) “Lee-Jackson-King Day.” (That appalling hybrid was abandoned in 2000, but Lee’s birthday is still celebrated on the Friday before King day.) ...
https://www.theatlantic.com/politics...-south/526668/

How about a compromise with the Confederate statues?

Keep'em up however build a statue-monument-sculpture-memorial to the victims of white supremacist ideology right next to each one.

Start with:
  • Cynthia Marie Graham Hurd (54) – Bible study member and manager for the Charleston County Public Library system; sister of Malcolm Graham.
  • Susie Jackson (87) – a Bible study and church choir member.
  • Ethel Lee Lance (70) – the church's sexton.
  • Depayne Middleton-Doctor (49) – a pastor who was also employed as a school administrator and admissions coordinator at Southern Wesleyan University.
  • Clementa C. Pinckney (41) – the church's pastor and a South Carolina state senator.
  • Tywanza Sanders (26) – a Bible study member; grandnephew of Susie Jackson.
  • Daniel Simmons (74) – a pastor who also served at Greater Zion AME Church in Awendaw.
  • Sharonda Coleman-Singleton (45) – a pastor; also a speech therapist and track coach at Goose Creek High School.
  • Myra Thompson (59) – a Bible study teacher.

Unfortunately, there are many more, more than enough for all the statues built to honor the Confederate cause.

White supremacy then, white supremacy now.

 
Old 06-12-2017, 05:59 PM
 
Location: North Pacific
15,755 posts, read 7,546,297 times
Reputation: 2576
Quote:
Originally Posted by ChiGeekGuest View Post
'Insulted' may not be the right way to describe, astonished there are folks in the present day who show the nauseating reverence to the Confederacy's white supremacist cause.

70% of American people are insulted by Martin Luther King?

Get. Real.

Do you still celebrate 'Lee-Jackson-King' Day?



https://www.theatlantic.com/politics...-south/526668/

How about a compromise with the Confederate statues?

Keep'em up however build a statue-monument-sculpture-memorial to the victims of white supremacist ideology right next to each one.

Start with:
  • Cynthia Marie Graham Hurd (54) – Bible study member and manager for the Charleston County Public Library system; sister of Malcolm Graham.
  • Susie Jackson (87) – a Bible study and church choir member.
  • Ethel Lee Lance (70) – the church's sexton.
  • Depayne Middleton-Doctor (49) – a pastor who was also employed as a school administrator and admissions coordinator at Southern Wesleyan University.
  • Clementa C. Pinckney (41) – the church's pastor and a South Carolina state senator.
  • Tywanza Sanders (26) – a Bible study member; grandnephew of Susie Jackson.
  • Daniel Simmons (74) – a pastor who also served at Greater Zion AME Church in Awendaw.
  • Sharonda Coleman-Singleton (45) – a pastor; also a speech therapist and track coach at Goose Creek High School.
  • Myra Thompson (59) – a Bible study teacher.

Unfortunately, there are many more, more than enough for all the statues built to honor the Confederate cause.

White supremacy then, white supremacy now.
^ removing historical statues will not change that; the idea of racial supremacy will change when people change. And if every time some one looks at something, if that is what they see, then it becomes that, whether it is or isn't won't matter.

New Orleans Is Wrong To Remove Its Confederate Monuments

Quote:
The drive to erase the Confederacy from our public squares isn’t really about unity or tolerance. It’s about power and politics. Censoring historical symbols is after all the cousin of censoring speech and inquiry.
The author of the article speaks of ancient Rome ... Germany sits where they use to be. Just saying ...

The Confederate Army was fighting for their freedom, it doesn't matter how any one wishes to define that freedom, it still remains the same. Is there honor in that? And once again, the answer to that question, depends. And we can do this all day long and at the end of the day, nothing will have changed. History remains the same.
 
Old 06-12-2017, 06:13 PM
 
8,061 posts, read 4,865,110 times
Reputation: 2460
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ellis Bell View Post
^ removing historical statues will not change that; the idea of racial supremacy will change when people change. And if every time some one looks at something, if that is what they see, then it becomes that, whether it is or isn't won't matter.

New Orleans Is Wrong To Remove Its Confederate Monuments

The author of the article speaks of ancient Rome ... Germany sits where they use to be. Just saying ...

The Confederate Army was fighting for their freedom, it doesn't matter how any one wishes to define that freedom, it still remains the same. Is there honor in that? And once again, the answer to that question, depends. And we can do this all day long and at the end of the day, nothing will have changed. History remains the same.
We Paid dearly with 620K killed, not mention the thousands who were wounded and were a victim of a doctors Bone Saw.


Al this is just bunch of nonsense from the over sensitive Black community. The could been considered over bearing when it comes to the cash crops of the south. The south could be judge on the evils of Slavery. There is much blame to go around.
The important thing we remember the Civil War for what it is and how it shaped our country.


Another dirty little secret is there Black volunteers for the Confederate Armed Forces. The poin t is the cloud of war is very confusing even today.
 
Old 06-12-2017, 06:16 PM
 
Location: *
13,242 posts, read 4,890,581 times
Reputation: 3461
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ellis Bell View Post
^ removing historical statues will not change that; the idea of racial supremacy will change when people change. And if every time some one looks at something, if that is what they see, then it becomes that, whether it is or isn't won't matter.

New Orleans Is Wrong To Remove Its Confederate Monuments

The author of the article speaks of ancient Rome ... Germany sits where they use to be. Just saying ...

The Confederate Army was fighting for their freedom, it doesn't matter how any one wishes to define that freedom, it still remains the same. Is there honor in that? And once again, the answer to that question, depends. And we can do this all day long and at the end of the day, nothing will have changed. History remains the same.
Common sense suggests it does in fact matter how freedom is defined, particularly when one is, simultaneously, defining humanity.
 
Old 06-12-2017, 06:26 PM
 
Location: North Pacific
15,755 posts, read 7,546,297 times
Reputation: 2576
Quote:
Originally Posted by ChiGeekGuest View Post
Common sense suggests it does in fact matter how freedom is defined, particularly when one is, simultaneously, defining humanity.
One must learn the art of being human before one can define humanity. Once again, 3000 years of something that was socially normal and accepted along with economically, politically and government sanctioned and we are only going to talk about that which happened in the 1860's? Trust, I find that very, weird, to say the least ...

Charlottesville Shows The Left Isn't Prepared To Fight Racism
 
Old 06-12-2017, 06:55 PM
 
Location: *
13,242 posts, read 4,890,581 times
Reputation: 3461
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ellis Bell View Post
One must learn the art of being human before one can define humanity. Once again, 3000 years of something that was socially normal and accepted along with economically, politically and government sanctioned and we are only going to talk about that which happened in the 1860's? Trust, I find that very, weird, to say the least ...

Charlottesville Shows The Left Isn't Prepared To Fight Racism
The "Art of being human"?

"...But not to be tedious in enumerating the numerous changes for the better, allow me to allude to one other -- though last, not least.

The new constitution has put at rest, forever, all the agitating questions relating to our peculiar institution -- African slavery as it exists amongst us -- the proper status of the negro in our form of civilization.

This was the immediate cause of the late rupture and present revolution.

Jefferson in his forecast, had anticipated this, as the "rock upon which the old Union would split." He was right.

What was conjecture with him, is now a realized fact. But whether he fully comprehended the great truth upon which that rock stood and stands, may be doubted. The prevailing ideas entertained by him and most of the leading statesmen at the time of the formation of the old constitution, were that the enslavement of the African was in violation of the laws of nature; that it was wrong in principle, socially, morally, and politically.

It was an evil they knew not well how to deal with, but the general opinion of the men of that day was that, somehow or other in the order of Providence, the institution would be evanescent and pass away.

This idea, though not incorporated in the constitution, was the prevailing idea at that time. The constitution, it is true, secured every essential guarantee to the institution while it should last, and hence no argument can be justly urged against the constitutional guarantees thus secured, because of the common sentiment of the day.

Those ideas, however, were fundamentally wrong.

They rested upon the assumption of the equality of races.

This was an error.

It was a sandy foundation, and the government built upon it fell when the "storm came and the wind blew."

Our new government is founded upon exactly the opposite idea; its foundations are laid, its corner- stone rests upon the great truth, that the negro is not equal to the white man; that slavery -- subordination to the superior race -- is his natural and normal condition. [Applause.]

This, our new government, is the first, in the history of the world, based upon this great physical, philosophical, and moral truth. This truth has been slow in the process of its development, like all other truths in the various departments of science. It has been so even amongst us.

Many who hear me, perhaps, can recollect well, that this truth was not generally admitted, even within their day. The errors of the past generation still clung to many as late as twenty years ago.

Those at the North, who still cling to these errors, with a zeal above knowledge, we justly denominate fanatics. All fanaticism springs from an aberration of the mind -- from a defect in reasoning. It is a species of insanity. One of the most striking characteristics of insanity, in many instances, is forming correct conclusions from fancied or erroneous premises; so with the anti-slavery fanatics; their conclusions are right if their premises were. ..."

https://www.ucs.louisiana.edu/~ras27.../stephens.html

You honor & revere such?
 
Old 06-12-2017, 07:14 PM
 
Location: North Pacific
15,755 posts, read 7,546,297 times
Reputation: 2576
Quote:
Originally Posted by ChiGeekGuest View Post
The "Art of being human"?

"...But not to be tedious in enumerating the numerous changes for the better, allow me to allude to one other -- though last, not least.

The new constitution has put at rest, forever, all the agitating questions relating to our peculiar institution -- African slavery as it exists amongst us -- the proper status of the negro in our form of civilization.

This was the immediate cause of the late rupture and present revolution.

Jefferson in his forecast, had anticipated this, as the "rock upon which the old Union would split." He was right.

What was conjecture with him, is now a realized fact. But whether he fully comprehended the great truth upon which that rock stood and stands, may be doubted. The prevailing ideas entertained by him and most of the leading statesmen at the time of the formation of the old constitution, were that the enslavement of the African was in violation of the laws of nature; that it was wrong in principle, socially, morally, and politically.

It was an evil they knew not well how to deal with, but the general opinion of the men of that day was that, somehow or other in the order of Providence, the institution would be evanescent and pass away.

This idea, though not incorporated in the constitution, was the prevailing idea at that time. The constitution, it is true, secured every essential guarantee to the institution while it should last, and hence no argument can be justly urged against the constitutional guarantees thus secured, because of the common sentiment of the day.

Those ideas, however, were fundamentally wrong.

They rested upon the assumption of the equality of races.

This was an error.

It was a sandy foundation, and the government built upon it fell when the "storm came and the wind blew."

Our new government is founded upon exactly the opposite idea; its foundations are laid, its corner- stone rests upon the great truth, that the negro is not equal to the white man; that slavery -- subordination to the superior race -- is his natural and normal condition. [Applause.]

This, our new government, is the first, in the history of the world, based upon this great physical, philosophical, and moral truth. This truth has been slow in the process of its development, like all other truths in the various departments of science. It has been so even amongst us.

Many who hear me, perhaps, can recollect well, that this truth was not generally admitted, even within their day. The errors of the past generation still clung to many as late as twenty years ago.

Those at the North, who still cling to these errors, with a zeal above knowledge, we justly denominate fanatics. All fanaticism springs from an aberration of the mind -- from a defect in reasoning. It is a species of insanity. One of the most striking characteristics of insanity, in many instances, is forming correct conclusions from fancied or erroneous premises; so with the anti-slavery fanatics; their conclusions are right if their premises were. ..."

https://www.ucs.louisiana.edu/~ras27.../stephens.html

You honor & revere such?
There are times a person will post a quote out of the Bible, in an attempt to make a relevant point. One time in particular I read like three chapters prior to that quote only to find that the point they were trying to make was non existent, because it had absolutely nothing to do with the story that was a being told. Learning the whole story, changed its meaning ...
 
Old 06-12-2017, 07:32 PM
 
Location: *
13,242 posts, read 4,890,581 times
Reputation: 3461
Quote:
Originally Posted by ellis bell View Post
there are times a person will post a quote out of the bible, in an attempt to make a relevant point. One time in particular i read like three chapters prior to that quote only to find that the point they were trying to make was non existent, because it had absolutely nothing to do with the story that was a being told. Learning the whole story, changed its meaning ...
gfy.
 
Old 06-12-2017, 08:04 PM
 
164 posts, read 137,597 times
Reputation: 272
Traitors don't deserve to have statues or memorials.



 
Old 06-12-2017, 08:14 PM
 
Location: North Pacific
15,755 posts, read 7,546,297 times
Reputation: 2576
Quote:
Originally Posted by ChiGeekGuest View Post
gfy.
Yes? well maybe not so much ...

As long as wars reign over man, humanity will never reach its full potential, in respect for human life ...

What is deemed morally acceptable today, in another 250 years will be a subject up for debate, as humanity continues to evolve; humanitarian deeds, as well as, freedoms redefined.

It does cause me to wonder, perhaps others not so much, how will we then be narrowly defined, as hindsight is not 20/20, it is with blurred vision we look back at our ancestors way of life and hold them in condemnation.

If we could whirl ourselves back in time a thousand years, this topic would be irrelevant; knowing this, I find it strange it isn't irrelevant today. For the life in me, I can not find its purpose.
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