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Old 03-07-2017, 01:18 AM
 
Location: Unperson Everyman Land
38,647 posts, read 26,363,905 times
Reputation: 12648

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chriz Brown View Post
Why do people on this forum totally ignore facts and ignore valid arguments against their side? Its just constant knee-jerk attacks with no analysis or support provided.

Why do you assume everything FOX NEWS or CNN tells you is automatically true just because the guy on the TeeVee happens to be someone from your political party?

Are people really this dumb?



Actually, I have a different take on things.


Yes, we are more divided that ever, but that is a merely a symptom of a two-party system that no longer benefits ordinary working Americans.


The truth is we have much in common, but we are so busy fighting over the crumbs that we have lost sight of the big picture.


The left vs. right paradigm allows our politicians to talk a lot without really saying anything and that is very important if you need to convince people to vote for you while still remaining loyal to the 0.1% donor class that makes your run for office possible.


The truth is there is no reason for the 0.1% to finance a politician's campaign (2/3 of all campaign contributions come from 0.1% of the population) except to get favorable laws and regulations put in place so that they can pollute America, offshore American jobs, underpay American workers and the like.


Since voters will not support a candidate who advocates whatever best benefits the 0.1%, politicians have to maximize the impact of the social issues that divide us.


And while some or all of these issues are important to many individuals, in most cases they don't and shouldn't outweigh economic and security matters.


So now we have a Republican Party that is fully fractured and a Democratic Party that can't seem to win elections outside of West Coast, North-East and Mid-West urban centers.

I see that as progress.


In decades past, Democrats were the party of the working man and the dominant political force in the US because we really didn't need a second party except as a check on the first.


That all changed when Democrats turned their backs on working-class white males.


With women entering the workforce in huge numbers in the 1970s, wages were certain to fall, and they did.


This economic revolution put Democrats in a very bad position.


The working man's party could no longer be the working man's party while also being the party of women's lib and the civil rights movement.


So they did what they had to do to remain viable; they cast off working-class white males.


Sure they would accept their votes, but if push came to shove, there was no way to keep well-paid male factory workers happy and the 0.1% who wanted lower wages also happy.


The obvious solution for Democrats going forward was to build a political coalition of everyone who was not a working-class white male.


And why not?


The government can still force white males to fight its wars and confiscate their earnings before they ever see them, so as along as working white males remain a political minority, it's a no-brainer.


Now divorced by the Democratic Party, working-class white males took refuge in the Republican Party of Ronald Reagan.


Because we were earners, we really had nowhere else to go.


Busy with the political correctness of the 1990s, and with labor unions in sharp decline, corporate ***** Democrats and corporate ***** Republicans joined hands in a concerted effort to shove NAFTA up our ass.


Later that decade, as BJ-gate became the national obsession, bipartisan banking reforms were passed that set us on a collision course with a financial collapse that would result in the greatest transfer of wealth from the have-nots to the already-haves since the Great Depression.


Again, the 0.1% rejoiced!


The problem is we never had an honest and intelligent discussion about the changes that would occur when women entered the workforce in such large numbers and the best way to prevent wage deterioration as the labor pool expanded.


Certainly NAFTA didn't benefit working men or women, and neither did the 2000 China Trade Act, but we ended up with them because it's what the 0.1% wanted.


Trump has all the correct policies and Sanders almost did.




We don't need everyone and their ugly aunt Tilly coming here for a job.


We don't need to involve ourselves in other people's wars.


We need to reduce the number of workers starting with illegal aliens.


If you don't have the legal right to be here, you have to go.


Education costs need to be brought back down to Earth.


Individuals need to held accountable for their actions.


If we just did that, we would accomplish almost everything else.
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Old 03-07-2017, 01:29 AM
 
19,827 posts, read 12,086,768 times
Reputation: 17554
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chriz Brown View Post
Why do people on this forum totally ignore facts and ignore valid arguments against their side? Its just constant knee-jerk attacks with no analysis or support provided.

Why do you assume everything FOX NEWS or CNN tells you is automatically true just because the guy on the TeeVee happens to be someone from your political party?

Are people really this dumb?
Why don't you tell us? Some of your previous threads:



Why do Cons hate the Environment?

The GOP builds up the military mostly to protect the elite class

Why are Trump supporters blind followers?

Why do so many racists feel empowered by Trump?

Do Republicans REALLY Believe in Justice and Freedom?

Why are Republicans ok with violating the constitution?
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Old 03-07-2017, 01:35 AM
 
Location: Newport Beach, California
39,208 posts, read 27,575,665 times
Reputation: 16046
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chriz Brown View Post
Why do people on this forum totally ignore facts and ignore valid arguments against their side? Its just constant knee-jerk attacks with no analysis or support provided.

Why do you assume everything FOX NEWS or CNN tells you is automatically true just because the guy on the TeeVee happens to be someone from your political party?

Are people really this dumb?
Quite frankly, I don't know what people are arguing about. The two parties are basically pretty much the same. Plus, people should approach every situation withOUT an agenda; they should deal with issues as if they are randomly selected to sit in the jury box. Emotion has nothing to do with anything, try to be fair and balanced. (Not many people can be able to do it, unfortunately.)

Emotion is thought which is obtained from subconscious processes. The validity of an emotion cannot be subjected to verification by someone else. You can tell me your emotions and I can have an opinion on them, but my opinion is irrelevant to your experience of emotions. Once people ask you this type of question, "How do you feel if you..." or if you have been told, "You are a racist if you voted ... insert a name here" you should know the conversation comes to an end; you simply cannot speak or reason with emotional people.

The UK and USA are examples of places where the voting system is rigged to alternate between a choice of two parties. In that situation the parties are set up to compete with each other. Whatever collaboration only works on a personal level. Even the word “bipartisan” prejudices the whole issue to say that there are only two parties to begin with.

In real life things are different. Nobody agrees 100% with a political party, we’re all somewhere on a multi-dimensional spectrum between them all. However we all live and work together rubbing shoulders with each other.
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Old 03-07-2017, 01:53 AM
Status: "everybody getting reported now.." (set 17 days ago)
 
Location: Pine Grove,AL
29,550 posts, read 16,528,077 times
Reputation: 6031
Quote:
Originally Posted by PedroMartinez View Post
All you have to do is look at the Ben Carson immigrant thread and see how people refuse to acknowledge simple definitions.
You are a prime example of that.
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Old 03-07-2017, 01:59 AM
 
Location: Sandpoint, Idaho
3,007 posts, read 6,284,017 times
Reputation: 3310
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chriz Brown View Post
Why do people on this forum totally ignore facts and ignore valid arguments against their side? Its just constant knee-jerk attacks with no analysis or support provided.

Why do you assume everything FOX NEWS or CNN tells you is automatically true just because the guy on the TeeVee happens to be someone from your political party?

Are people really this dumb?
Not dumb but over schooled, undereducated, and largely indifferent. They are willful lemmings.

S.
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Old 03-07-2017, 03:15 AM
 
Location: Elgin, Illinois
1,200 posts, read 1,604,123 times
Reputation: 407
Quote:
Originally Posted by Informed Info View Post
What hasn't?
I would like to see a list, and from a credible source not those alt right or conservative blogs.

I mean from the top of my head, we know Trump has lied about:

A) Electoral college win being the biggest in its history - Bush Sr. holds that title

B) Obama wiretapping him - FBI has denied it

C) Healthcare for everyone - that new bill which he praised on twitter doesn't cover everyone

D) He said he'd release his tax returns, then said he couldn't because of an audit - IRS says nothing is stopping him from releasing them

E) Claim of millions illegally voting without any proof - yeah some news items popped up that showed some had voted twice or improperly (some of which were republicans), but that doesn't translate to millions

F) Flip flopping on Flynn on whether or not he has his support

G) The unemployment and economy being a complete disaster - unemployment has been at its lowest for a long time and the economy has been steadily rising. Is it perfect, no but it's not disastrous as Trump claimed.

I mean if he lies about so many benign things, can you imagine about the more serious stuff?

And considering they haven't even started to investigate a connection between Russia and Trump administration, how can anyone claim it's false when the investigation has not even officially begun?
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Old 03-07-2017, 03:35 AM
 
8,377 posts, read 4,359,448 times
Reputation: 11880
Because Trump is jerk and cons cant admit they were wrong voting for him.
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Old 03-07-2017, 03:54 AM
 
Location: NC
1,873 posts, read 2,405,257 times
Reputation: 1825
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chriz Brown View Post
Why do people on this forum totally ignore facts and ignore valid arguments against their side? Its just constant knee-jerk attacks with no analysis or support provided.

Why do you assume everything FOX NEWS or CNN tells you is automatically true just because the guy on the TeeVee happens to be someone from your political party?

Are people really this dumb?
Dumb is a little harsh. Willfully uninformed, mostly. Listening to each other, asking respectful questions, rarely. Clinging to their "tribes," most are.

I'd be thrilled to find a forum where people can discuss politics in a productive, thoughtful, respectful way. We might slowly move the ball forward. But it can't be done on most political forums, and certainly not here either. This sub-forum is dominated by people parroting their POV with no intention of considering flaws in their arguments or merits of other arguments - the left and the right are equally guilty. Rapid fire shouting and leaping to conclusions drowns out any worthwhile discussion.

I've seen several threads with thoughtful first posts, but the devolve into chaos almost instantly every time. I started one a few days ago, and it went well for about two pages. Next time I looked it was gone, I have no idea what happened.

This sub-forum is a waste of time, that's why I'm rarely here. It's exhausting, and what does it accomplish beyond people mindlessly venting and tormenting each other for fun?

Last edited by Midpack; 03-07-2017 at 04:46 AM..
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Old 03-07-2017, 04:52 AM
 
Location: Ohio
13,933 posts, read 12,890,487 times
Reputation: 7399
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chriz Brown View Post
Why do people on this forum totally ignore facts and ignore valid arguments against their side? Its just constant knee-jerk attacks with no analysis or support provided.

Why do you assume everything FOX NEWS or CNN tells you is automatically true just because the guy on the TeeVee happens to be someone from your political party?

Are people really this dumb?
This is the way it is now.....

There no longer exists any objective facts, no objective standard for what is right or wrong, what is truth and what is a lie...

If the other side believes it, it's wrong. If the other side says it, it's a lie. If the other side supports it, we oppose it.

Both sides are guilty of this.
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Old 03-07-2017, 05:28 AM
 
Location: OH->FL->NJ
17,003 posts, read 12,583,387 times
Reputation: 8921
People get their news from whatever bias they already have. Its an echo chamber. It also becomes a size contest to see who is more liberal/ conservative.
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