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Old 03-09-2017, 02:27 PM
 
Location: Newport Beach, California
39,023 posts, read 27,418,548 times
Reputation: 15942

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Very old argument.

I will repeat, you all know "bring troops home" will not happen any time soon
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Old 03-09-2017, 02:31 PM
 
1,478 posts, read 784,024 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TheCityTheBridge View Post
Reputation does not mean nearly as much as some would like to imagine. That's especially true when the opponents are non-state actors with little to lose. ISIS would eventually collapse under the assault of Assad, Russia, Iran, Lebanon, Jordan, Iraq, and Turkey. There is no need for American troops there. ISIS is already shedding territory rapidly.

There has never been a period of time when trouble did not appear in every corner of the planet. Imperial efforts accelerate trouble.



Sykes-Picot was never implemented. The Peace Conference in Paris after WWI substantially deviated from Sykes-Picot for reasons both obvious (e.g., the Bolshevik Revolution) and less obvious (e.g., the discovery of oil near Kirkuk and British anticipation of the strategic importance of oil).

The people of the Middle East were not tribes during WWI. The Arabs were a settled people long before the Ottoman Turks came to rule them. The same is true of the Persians.

The Sunni-Shia split was old when the former Ottoman Empire was divided by the imperial powers into mandates. Yet it was routinely managed under singular empires for centuries. Today's Sunni-Shi'a clashes are primarily about Iraq, which was cobbled together after WWI out of historically Persian, Arab, and Kurdish territories. It is also about Yemen, which is in essence a proxy war between Iran and Saudi Arabia.

The disputes to which Israel is a party stem from events after WWI, including Zionist violence in the British Mandate and the Holocaust.

Terrorism is a tactic. It is used by weak actors to bend strong ones. Al Qaeda has more in common with the IRA during the Troubles than it does with any of the nations of the Middle East.
Terrorism is a tactic. But it used by nation-states as well. Such as Hiroshima and Nagasaki. And Al Qaida is an NGO like the former IRA. But the former IRA would call in its bombings so non-combatants could flee a building before they blew it up. At least as I remember it. That is akin to the US notifying a city in advance that non-combatants should flee because in x number of hours or days the US will be bombing the city.
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Old 03-09-2017, 02:36 PM
 
1,478 posts, read 784,024 times
Reputation: 561
Quote:
Originally Posted by lilyflower3191981 View Post
It is easy to say "Bring troops home"

Anybody can say it on the internet. You all know this is not going to happen because it is the American politicis and politicians we are dealing with here.

Who seems to be the lesser of two evils?

The one who wants a SINGLE war that is short and quick, destroy ISIS and be done with.

The one who wants a political correct war that is never ending.
I agree with having a quick and short war of anihilated ISIS, depriving them of territory.
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Old 03-09-2017, 02:40 PM
 
1,478 posts, read 784,024 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by EDnurse View Post
To clarify things, you are proposing to annihilate ISIS. To do that you'd have to kill every Muslim man, woman and child in this world, plus destroy every shred of their "civilization". Otherwise, another ISIS can pop up in Malaysia, etc. Do you concur?
No I do not concur.
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Old 03-09-2017, 02:45 PM
 
34,620 posts, read 21,503,054 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lilyflower3191981 View Post
Very old argument.

I will repeat, you all know "bring troops home" will not happen any time soon
Put me in charge and it would.
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Old 03-09-2017, 02:49 PM
 
1,478 posts, read 784,024 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by burdell View Post
WHY would you do it? At what cost in American blood and taxpayer $$$? Why not lleave the killing to those most threatened?
The why is in large part for moral duty.

America spends enough money and lives on stupid stuff. Might as well expend money and lives on a worthy cause. The soldiers can feel afterwards they sacrificed for a call on par with confronting Nazi Germany.

Quote:
Fighting ISIS or fighting the forces of those who oppose him under the guise of fighting ISIS?
ISIS already controls a significant geographical portion of Syria, and they want to rest of the territory of Syria. So, what do you think?
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Old 03-09-2017, 02:52 PM
 
Location: Newport Beach, California
39,023 posts, read 27,418,548 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PedroMartinez View Post
Put me in charge and it would.
But you are not in charge. Put me in charge, and it would too. I think maybe even Bernie Sanders would be all right.

At this point, I think Trump's administration wants a short war. I am just hoping this is the case.
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Old 03-09-2017, 02:54 PM
 
34,620 posts, read 21,503,054 times
Reputation: 22232
Quote:
Originally Posted by lilyflower3191981 View Post
But you are not in charge. Put me in charge, and it would too. I think maybe even Bernie Sanders would be all right.

At this point, I think Trump's administration wants a short war. I am just hoping this is the case.
You can be POTUS and I'll be VP. Most of the perks with a quarter of the hatred.
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Old 03-09-2017, 02:57 PM
 
Location: Newport Beach, California
39,023 posts, read 27,418,548 times
Reputation: 15942
Quote:
Originally Posted by PedroMartinez View Post
You can be POTUS and I'll be VP. Most of the perks with a quarter of the hatred.
haha I want to be in charge of VA. Should put me in charge there.
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Old 03-09-2017, 04:41 PM
 
Location: On a Long Island in NY
7,801 posts, read 10,078,872 times
Reputation: 7366
Quote:
Originally Posted by lilyflower3191981 View Post
I will try.

I think it might be the same reason why Osama bin Laden must be destroyed.

Don't get me wrong, I don't believe Americans should be responsible for destroying Isis. I think it is up to the Muslims to make a decision.

But, One thing we should not underestimate: the power of reputation. If the American President has the reputation of being strong, decisive and swift, this reputation will act as a deterrent. But gain a reputation of being weak, indecisive and slow, and trouble will appear in every corner of the earth.

So this might be the reason why ISIS must be destroyed.
At what cost? How many Americans have to come home in boxes? Look, I don't like ISIS anymore than you do but the American public stopped having the stomach for serious wars sometime in the 1950s. I will venture a guess that the only reason we had the stomach to fight WW2 to the end was because the media was censored: casualty counts were hidden, clusterbeeps like Exercise Tiger and the Hurtgen Forest were not reported on. They Navy didn't even release the complete ship losses from Pearl Harbor until 1944 when it was obvious we would win.

What do you think would have happened if the media reported that two entire US Army infantry divisions were literally wiped out in the Hurtgen Forest in the fall of 1944? The same thing we saw in Vietnam.
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