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No need to look in the mirror.
The divisions are not the result of normal people.
There is a percentage - maybe 25-30% (example- people who loved GWB even after the two lost wars and the Great Recession, etc.) who are called "Authoritarians" - more specifically "RWA - Right Wing Authoritarians".
Normally, this 25 or 30% isn't enough to gain power in our country. But gerrymandering and other election manipulation - combined with some other crazy stuff (Russians, loss of popular vote, etc.) have put a guy who appeals to RWA's into the WH.
RWA's are not leaders. They are not thinkers. What they do is follow whoever and whatever they perceived as "strong leaders".
Until we get rid of Trump and people like him in government, we face the real danger of seeing a lot of the old hate fests ........these people will be partying like it's 1935.
Here is some info on RWA. Of course, very few people are going to stand up and say "that's me!"....but, look around. Anyone who, for example, accepts the obvious and blatant lies Trump parrots HAS to be RWA. After all, it's possible to vote for and support a POTUS without believing every piece of BS he repeats from Fox News, right?
"For example, take the following statement: “Once our government leaders and the authorities condemn the dangerous elements in our society, it will be the duty of every patriotic citizen to help stomp out the rot that is poisoning our country from within.” Sounds like something Hitler would say, right? Want to guess how many politicians, how many lawmakers in the United States agreed with it? Want to guess what they had in common?
Or how about a government program that persecutes political parties, or minorities, or journalists the authorities do not like, by putting them in jail, even torturing and killing them. Nobody would approve of that, right? Guess again.
Don’t think for a minute this doesn’t concern you personally. Let me ask you, as we’re passing the time here, how many ordinary people do you think an evil authority would have to order to kill you before he found someone who would, unjustly, out of sheer obedience, just because the authority said to? What sort of person is most likely to follow such an order? What kind of official is most likely to give that order, if it suited his purposes? Look at what experiments tell us, as I did."
Your whole post is full of nothing but lies and lefty, liberal BS.
I agree on the illegal issue even though I can't stand Trump and his ilk. Illegals did not go through our legal system and thev've taken away jobs...like roofing, landscaping, house cleaning.
Building a stupid wall isn't going to fix the problem. The government would have to buy or take people's land to put the wall on. Many studies have show the wall to be impractical. Anyway, I think the Rich of both parties want the cheap labor so they are not really going to do much about illegals.
It's not stupid to build the 700 mile long wall along the most porous areas of our border that congress already approve in 2006. If some land owners don't want it on their property then I say let them deal with the drug cartels and illegals themselves. They'll be begging for the wall in no time. I don't know what studies you are reading but read this.
I was/am a carpenter....worked on many a project decades ago. Other than the union jobs (I was not union) the wages were terrible. I was a very quick carpenter and these jobs (framing houses, trimming houses) pay by the job. At my best - at age 25-30, I was able to earn perhaps 2X minimum wage with no benefits, health care, etc.
This was at a pace which would be almost impossible for many to maintain.
And so, today, the guys framing those houses - if they are good - may be making $16 an hour or so. That's when it doesn't rain. That doesn't include any benefits...and also isn't a real job. That is, when they run out of houses that need framed, you don't work.
Let's put that aside for a moment because so many "real Americans" are anti-union so they don't support living wages, health care and all that good stuff anyway. But as a matter of interest - do you cruise these forums calling anti-union people unpatriotic?
Now - let's take just a little of the "immigrant" problem. Who do most "illegals" work for? I can tell you that there are thousands of them on the construction sites in Miami and the area surrounding. I can also tell you there are a lot of TRUMP signs on those buildings. Does this mean Don the Con hired Mexicans? Of course not - they have it set up so there are two or three level of subcontractors so that Trump or the builder hires one firm that hires another who then hires the illegals.
How about the vast meat packing industry? Hotels? Restaurants? Vast Agricultural firms? Is it little guys like you and I who are the bosses there and hire these illegals and then pay them under the table?
OR, is it likely very wealthy people - yes, even republicans and trump supporters - who are ultimately responsible for hiring these people? Why don't they throw a couple of the employers in jail and see what happens?
I think you know why? Because it's the same people telling you to hate the immigrants who are hiring them and making money from their labor.
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There are MANY other issues involved. Maybe I am out-of-touch but most of the young "real" Americans I know don't want to do "dirty jobs" and sweat in the fields and on construction sites.
BUT, of all the "wrongs" perhaps the very idea that you seem to be blaming regular old Americans for much of this......is the most fantastic! Mr. Trump and his buddies in construction along with Big Agriculture are perhaps the biggest "criminals" out there...if you want to throw blame around. blame it on the Republicans who refused to tackle comprehensive immigration reform. Or blame it on Ronald Reagan who DID Amnesty.
But why are we even talking about this? I'll tell you why. Because it's like the Nazi's and Jews and/or those African Tribes who are told to hate each other. The more that Trump and friends can get us fighting about stuff we have nothing to do with - we can all then hate each other instead of seeing the real problem(s).
Who hates "immigrants"? Illegal aliens aren't "immigrants". Only 2% of illegals are working in the ag industry and there are unlimited visas for legal, foreign workers as it is not a career job for Americans and is only seasonal work. So please don't bring up the crop picking argument it doesn't fly. All other blue- collared jobs Americans have always done for a fair wage until millions of cheap illegals flooded our border. I am well aware of what the contractors and sub-contractors do but it is their responsibility to check the legal status of their workers.
Comprehensive Reform is just a cute term for amnesty. No wonder many in the GOP wouldn't go for it. Reagan lived to regret signing his amnesty as the borders weren't secured as promised and now we have at least quadruple the number of illegals here today. Yeah, that worked out real well, didn't it? When do these amnesties end? Rewarding law breakers never makes sense and Americans need those jobs back.
Trump is not promoting hate by enforcing our immigration laws or properly vetting refugees from known terrorist countries. Anyone who thinks so doesn't want either of the above. Just what is this real problem you are speaking of? We have a lot of real problems in this country and one of them is illegal immigration. Liberals and conservatives have always been fighting each other. This is news to you? It's not something new under Trump.
Location: New Albany, Indiana (Greater Louisville)
11,974 posts, read 25,476,450 times
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What's happened is the standard of living has declined for the bottom 40% of Americans and no matter which party is in charge nothing changes. Income is stagnant while COL rises, even life expectancy is falling in many areas. People finally figured out both parties are playing them so they voted for the guy who gives the establishment a middle finger. I'm fed up too, I thought Gary Johnson was a more moral choice than Trump. There are aspects of Trumpism I like (such as actually focusing on blue collar people who are struggling) but his core economic philosophy is Trickle Down which I believe caused today's problems. Democrats are increasingly becoming out of touch with blue collar economic concerns and today are little better than the GOP.
You 2 posters' stories are GOOD reason to make life hell for illegal aliens AND their fans here in the US. Dem or Repub: all of their kind NEED to be punished and HARD. If it means prison time and seizing all assets, I'm good with that.
I guess you did not understand my post... What responsibility are you putting on Mickey ?????
Who hates "immigrants"? Illegal aliens aren't "immigrants". Only 2% of illegals are working in the ag industry and there are unlimited visas for legal, foreign workers as it is not a career job for Americans and is only seasonal work. So please don't bring up the crop picking argument it doesn't fly. All other blue- collared jobs Americans have always done for a fair wage until millions of cheap illegals flooded our border. I am well aware of what the contractors and sub-contractors do but it is their responsibility to check the legal status of their workers.
Comprehensive Reform is just a cute term for amnesty. No wonder many in the GOP wouldn't go for it. .
things change fast depending on the economy.
As it stands right now, 17% of the Ag workforce are illegal immigrants. That is substantial - BUT, with the ending of the Great Recession and the generations of immigrants becoming more educated, they are also in many other industries.
The "problem" you speak of seems to be record numbers of Mexicans headed back home voluntarily under Obama and now Trump. How can one speak of steep decreases as a big problem?
I live in an area where they import Russians, Irish and other relatively poor people for seasonal jobs. I have to assume it's a "guest worker" program - you know, the kind we should have worked out for Mexicans long ago.
The very idea that you can solve any "problem" 100% is a sure sign of Authoritarianism. It's the same world view that said we could jail all the pot smokers and fix that problem.
Problems are solved by legislation by our Congress - legislation which passes Constitutional muster. At least that is what "free" Americans agree upon. That is "comprehensive immigration reform" - which could be done in an almost infinite number of ways.
And, yeah.....like many others, if I needed some hard and honest work done around the property, I'd be hiring Juan and Pedro myself because, frankly, I can't find any dudes who are multi-generational American who want to step outside of air conditioning.
I assume that is why so many spanish speakers are working on Trump and other similar properties in Miami, Vegas and elsewhere. But you'd have to ask Donald to be sure.
As I said before, many of those jobs used to pay a fair wage not minimum wage until millions of illegal aliens flooded our border. Many of those lower paying jobs used to be held by our American youth as entry level jobs or to supplement their incomes. If we really had a shortage of American or legal immigrant blue collared workers wouldn't we increase our visas for legal workers? Hmm. What does that tell you since we haven't?
When you factor in the $113 billion a year that illegals cost us they are no bargain. Some illegals are rapists and murderers and that's just a fact. No one has said that they all are.
I know plenty of construction workers who lost their jobs to illegal aliens. They only way they could get them back is to work for minimum wage and be able to speak Spanish these days. The bottom line is why don't you have any respect for the rule of law and why our laws are in place? There is no justification for hiring illegal aliens nor to be a supporter/defender of illegal aliens.....NONE! It's simply anti-American.
Have you got any official source for all you wish to pass as truth, and/or how about the rest of the story?
Going back to when the Grapes of Wrath was written about all those people barely surviving as they crossed the country to work on farms, what is this history or documentation of all those "fair wage" jobs you want to claim were lost to illegal immigrants?
In similar one-sided simple fashion, you throw out the $113 billion a year cost of illegal aliens, again without source, explanation or substantiation while making no mention of what positive value is also contributed by these workers.
Go on as you and Trump types will, constantly with the reference to "rapists and murderers," because it serves your agenda and doesn't matter how true or not, how representative of the truth or not. Millions of people and an incident of rape or murder, and why not make mention of rape and murder every time those millions of people are being referenced? Insults work their magic if repeated over and over, especially for those receptive to insulting others whether justified or not. "The ugly American" at his ugliest.
Go on all you like about history in whatever way you want to portray it as well, but our focus today is on the circumstances of the day, regardless how they came to be. I have been at the front line, and these jobs, this work simply does not get done if not for legal and illegal immigrant work, today, just like over many decades past, going back to when the Chinese were used in similar fashion to work the railroads...
A little bit of REAL history that might seem familiar...
The History of Chinese Americans or the history of ethnic Chinese in the United States relates to the three major waves of Chinese immigration to the United States with the first beginning in the 19th century. Chinese immigrants in the 19th century worked as laborers, particularly on the transcontinental railroad, such as the Central Pacific Railroad. They also worked as laborers in the mining industry, and suffered racial discrimination at every level of society. While industrial employers were eager to get this new and cheap labor, the ordinary white public was stirred to anger by the presence of this "yellow peril".
Despite the provisions for equal treatment of Chinese immigrants in the 1868 Burlingame Treaty, political and labor organizations rallied against the immigration of what they regarded as a degraded race and "cheap Chinese labor". Newspapers condemned the policies of employers, and even church leaders denounced the entrance of these aliens into what was regarded as a land for whites only. So hostile was the opposition that in 1882 the United States Congress eventually passed the Chinese Exclusion Act, which prohibited immigration from China for the next ten years. This law was then extended by the Geary Act in 1892. The Chinese Exclusion Act was the only U.S. law ever to prevent immigration and naturalization on the basis of race.
These laws not only prevented new immigration but also brought additional suffering as they prevented the reunion of the families of thousands of Chinese men already living in the United States (that is, men who had left China without their wives and children); anti-miscegenation laws in many states prohibited Chinese men from marrying white women.
Right. Who cares about these other people, immigrants, who don't look and sound like us? Let's get ours and treat them not like people but the low-lifes we need not only for the work but to justify our own selfish and intolerant ways.
Oops! Almost forgot to also mention the rapists and murderers among them. Can't forget to do that or we might forget the "peril" these folks truly represent!
There are MANY other issues involved. Maybe I am out-of-touch but most of the young "real" Americans I know don't want to do "dirty jobs" and sweat in the fields and on construction sites.
BUT, of all the "wrongs" perhaps the very idea that you seem to be blaming regular old Americans for much of this......is the most fantastic! Mr. Trump and his buddies in construction along with Big Agriculture are perhaps the biggest "criminals" out there...if you want to throw blame around. blame it on the Republicans who refused to tackle comprehensive immigration reform. Or blame it on Ronald Reagan who DID Amnesty.
But why are we even talking about this? I'll tell you why. Because it's like the Nazi's and Jews and/or those African Tribes who are told to hate each other. The more that Trump and friends can get us fighting about stuff we have nothing to do with - we can all then hate each other instead of seeing the real problem(s).
Perhaps a bit more truth here than the typical nonsense Trump and his supporters are used to reading/tweeting, but worth considering for those more interested in the truth of these matters. Thanks.
I agree on the illegal issue even though I can't stand Trump and his ilk. Illegals did not go through our legal system and thev've taken away jobs...like roofing, landscaping, house cleaning.
Building a stupid wall isn't going to fix the problem. The government would have to buy or take people's land to put the wall on. Many studies have show the wall to be impractical. Anyway, I think the Rich of both parties want the cheap labor so they are not really going to do much about illegals.
Look. I'm essentially all for respect of the law, and I've already commented how these laws need to be changed if we are going to ignore the reasons American businesses and citizens utilize available cheap labor.
Plain fact is that we have the problem of Americans gladly paying for this immigrant work while we demonize these workers at the same time. For Hispanics, if an American company or American citizen is willing to pay them to work at their company or in their house, at their restaurant or their hotel, look after their children..., that's all the "law" and incentive an immigrant needs as they are simply trying to make a buck, make a living, even if deported is a possibility.
Forget these simple fundamentals, and...
Right! Rapists and murderers! Almost forgot...
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