Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
Do you think things will get MORE free and MORE progressive and open with MORE Islam in Europe?
Also, European/Turkish Islam is 180 degrees from what is being imported these days from the Middle East and Africa. What is showing up in Europe is far more conservative.
Why do you people insist that culture doesn't matter? Why do you think people are just interchangable consumers and that you DON'T have to worry about preserving or maintaining a free and open society and culture thousands of years in the making?
You don't have to "shoot people at the border" but you also don't have to advertise that you're open for everyone who can make it there (and who pass by half a dozen other SAFE countries on the way to Sweden)... There's a reason why places like Poland and Hungary have been spared these issues!
No, I doubt it. There's some elements in Islam that isn't compatible with today's European society, especially conservative Islam, like Salafism. But so isn't fundamental Christianity either. It's important to combat this kind of fundamentalism, but there's a lot of secular Muslims in Europe too, I know several. Muslims have been in countries like France and Germany for 60 years at least, and most of them are good law-abiding and hard-working people.
No country advertised that they are open for everyone. Some politicians did. Only few countries took a large numbers of migrants, or more precisely, they just arrived. This has ended, though. Only 25% of migrants arrived in 2016 compared to 2015.
Note that hundreds of thousands migrants arrived in Hungary in 2015. They were kept in prison camps, concentration camps if you like, and it's no surprise that Germany was the country which said that we cannot accept that.
I don't see Islam as threat to our existence. After all, there's around 510 million people in the EU, of which around 15-20 million are Muslim. Russia has another 20 million. Terrorism is a threat, ISIS is a threat, Saudi financed Salafist nutcase-preachers are a threat. Ahmed next door working as a shop clerk is not a threat.
Quote:
Originally Posted by golgi1
Sure.The violent crime just involves, almost without exception, refugees, immigrants, or their children.
Some ethnic groups are certainly overrepresented, for various reasons. They may be in the country just to commit crimes. In Scandinavia this is true for example people from the Baltic States.
Quote:
Originally Posted by golgi1
This sounds like a tall tale. But even if it is true, its no coincidence that, again, its happening between
refugees, immigrants, or their children.
This is not a coincidence. This is a pattern throughout the West.
This is your excuse for the rapes and other violent crime? Lie.
No, it is not a tall tale. All the grenade attacks for example in Malmö have been linked to organised crime and revenge attacks. The police has clearly stated that this is a organised crime matter.
But indeed it seems that people of foreign ethnicity are somewhat overrepresented in organised crime in all Western Countries.
I'm not making excuses. All I know is that these groups have been very active in Sweden. The Danish bikers (Hells' Angels for instance) have been involved since the mid 80's. Yes, some ethnicities seem to be more suspects of rape. These are people from countries where women are seen as 2nd class citizens. But in Sweden almost half of the rapes happen at home, at a friend's home, at work or at school. It's not that the streets are filled with Brown people lurking in the bushes only to ambush blonde blue-eyed Swedish maidens. Also, it's a fact that immigrant women are far more likely to be raped than native women.
Quote:
Originally Posted by golgi1
When you attempt to spin and hide the identities of the participants, you lose the moral high-ground. It doesn't matter if they are Swedish nationals. They are not Scandinavian nor indigenous European. That's the point. It doesn't matter if they become Swedish nationals. It doesn't make them Swedish, and the problems persist.
I just don't know their ethnicities, and neither does the police, as most haven't been caught. My hunch is 18-22 yo unmarried unemployed men born in Sweden with immigrant background is the usual suspect. And then there's the members of organised crime, which may well be ethnic Swedes.
If you are born in Sweden and live in Sweden you're Swedish. It doesn't matter if your parents are from Serbia or Somalia. These people are here to stay, they aren't going anywhere. You cannot turn back the clock to 1900. What is important is that we include these people into the society so they become tax-paying citizens.
umm that is from 1996, and they are NOT no go. But i get how you need to frame them like that. I have been hearing people talk about no go areas since i was kid and i have yet to find one.
there are "tough" areas in every big city, that just means tourists should avoid them, not "NO GO"...by any means.
I know i walk freely through them in my white white skin.
I'm not Swedish - I'm a Dutch/American dual citizen but I'm part of this Facebook group "Stå Upp För Peter Springare" or "Stand Up For Peter Knight", who is in the Örebro police foce. This group has over 200,000 members which is actually 2% of the Swedish Population (9.5M). You can read here about the cover-up in the PC Swedish Media, the ongoing rapes in Sweden, the fact that Sweden wants to keep up its pristine reputation. Very interesting folks.
We cannot shoot them at the border either, can we? Massacring women and children isn't really a good idea.
No government WANTED these refugees. They just appeared on our doorstep. And as humans we must help those in need. Those who are simply gold diggers or criminals will be sent back, many has already left after being rejected. Currently in Germany only some 45% of all applicants actually get refuge.
But Islam has been in Europe since it's foundation. There's even an Islamic majority country in Europe - Albania - which is also a member of NATO. The country with the largest percentage of Muslims is Russia. The first Muslim migrants came to Germany in the 1950's, the gastarbeiter from Turkey.
I do not advocate shooting them- just rejecting them. Let the Islamic countries solve the problems that Islam brings on- plain and simple. Sure, send the criminals back- unfortunately, they will have already killed and raped innocent people! Europe is acting cowardly and stupidly- they will bring on their own demise.
We cannot shoot them at the border either, can we? Massacring women and children isn't really a good idea.
No government WANTED these refugees. They just appeared on our doorstep. And as humans we must help those in need. Those who are simply gold diggers or criminals will be sent back, many has already left after being rejected. Currently in Germany only some 45% of all applicants actually get refuge.
Nobody has the right to be taken in as a refugee. No refugee has the right to stay. If Germany or Sweden decided to deport all of the refugees tomorrow, that is their right. No it wouldn't be right to just shoot them. That much is obvious. Nobody in their right mind is suggesting doing so. Repatriating them to their nation of origin would be the most likely approach.
Quote:
But Islam has been in Europe since it's foundation. There's even an Islamic majority country in Europe - Albania - which is also a member of NATO. The country with the largest percentage of Muslims is Russia. The first Muslim migrants came to Germany in the 1950's, the gastarbeiter from Turkey.
When Europe was "founded" thousands and thousands of years ago, there was no such thing as Islam or Christianity. So that's a strange statement to make. And no, Russia does not have the highest percentage of Muslims. Russia is about 6.5% Muslim.
Slavic native faith, other Pagan and Tengrist (1.2%)
Tibetan Buddhism (0.5%)
But to respond to your general points, it all comes down to assimilation. If Muslims assimilate to the culture of their host European nations, then there is no problem. Muslims who have been in Europe and the USA for a long time aren't the ones causing most of the problems. Thanks largely to the Jewish Holocaust, most of the nations of Europe have a massively overdeveloped sense of white/western guilt. This has led to elected leaders like Angela Merkel to push for multiculturalism rather than assimilation. The problem is that the cultures of the refugees and the culture of Europe are completely incompatible. The refugees come from a culture where women have few or no rights. In their culture, a woman walking around in a bikini is unthinkable and a punishable crime. In their culture, religion and government are one and the same thing. They come from a culture with an overwhelming consensus that Islam must conquer and convert the entire planet.
Muslims who have been in the West for a long time have found their way to strike a balance between their religion and living in secular societies. And in the case of Albania (since you mentioned it), there you have a totally different animal. It is true that about 57% of Albanians are Muslims. It is also true that the vast majority of Albanians do not consider religion to be a dominant factor in their lives. In that respect, they are much more European in their approach to religion in their everyday lives.
The biggest problem with Islam IMHO is that it has not yet experienced a Reformation/Renaissance experience. Jews and Christians have. The Old Testament could easily be cited to excuse all manner of atrocities. Both Judaism and Christianity have concluded that you just can't do that anymore. They've evolved past that. And there is a widespread acceptance in both religious traditions that Church and State must be kept separate. I have great hopes that moderates within Islam will succeed in doing the same thing for their own religion. It just hasn't happened yet. Many Muslims in the West are already there. I think it is a reasonable expectation to require any and all Muslims settling in the West to accept a more moderate approach. Acceptance of separation of church and state is a good minimum standard.
Last edited by godofthunder9010; 03-15-2017 at 08:33 AM..
I don't see Islam as threat to our existence. After all, there's around 510 million people in the EU, of which around 15-20 million are Muslim. Russia has another 20 million. Terrorism is a threat, ISIS is a threat, Saudi financed Salafist nutcase-preachers are a threat. Ahmed next door working as a shop clerk is not a threat.
And that's the problem. It's not about "Ahmed the shop keeper" --- it's the fact that even though "90% of Muslims are peaceful," whenever and wherever they are a majority, people like Ahmed just don't seem to be able to keep the extremists from wielding power.
Just like how just a fraction of Germans were actually full-bore Nazis. You don't need 100% to be on board with atrocity. Just enough who are too terrified to ever do anything about the extremists.
Even Turkey is seeing resurgence of Islamism. TURKEY, which once had aspirations of EU membership. This, despite the large number of Turks who are atheists.
Islam is NOT compatible with western progressive values. Christianity is troublesome, but it is WITHIN the Christian world that progressivism developed. There is no correlation in Islam. There will be no gay pride or gay marriage in any Muslim majority country --- Salafist or not --- in the near or even distant future. That is the ideology you are embracing.
It is the utmost arrogance for Europeans to think that they will have a different fate than every other place where Islam has increased its presence. Europe is a cash cow, and nothing else. They aren't flocking to Sweden because they agree with the open society that Sweden has developed over long-fought centuries. It is best you figure that out sooner rather than later before you literally "love" your country to its cultural death.
Nobody has the right to be taken in as a refugee. No refugee has the right to stay. If Germany or Sweden decided to deport all of the refugees tomorrow, that is their right. No it wouldn't be right to just shoot them. That much is obvious. Nobody in their right mind is suggesting doing so. Repatriating them to their nation of origin would be the most likely approach.
Technically it would be against international law (pertaining to refugees) which is why the smarter solution is not to let them in the first place.
And are they even refugees once their feet touch a place like Turkey? They're safe in Turkey, and continuing their path to European shores makes them migrants, not refugees.
I'm not Swedish - I'm a Dutch/American dual citizen but I'm part of this Facebook group "Stå Upp För Peter Springare" or "Stand Up For Peter Knight", who is in the Örebro police foce. This group has over 200,000 members which is actually 2% of the Swedish Population (9.5M). You can read here about the cover-up in the PC Swedish Media, the ongoing rapes in Sweden, the fact that Sweden wants to keep up its pristine reputation. Very interesting folks.
You probably will not get a response. The Trump Haters don't like facts.
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.
Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
