Listen to Executive VP of Planned Parenthood deflecting on question of life. (regular, suspect)
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It is a separate human being from the beginning of development. It is never "part of the woman's body." Can you name a time when it is not a separate individual?
It seems that in every one of these discussions, ignorance prevails, and that ignorance is because of the purposeful obfuscation of facts by planned parenthood, and a general lack of education. Apparently, 7th-grade biology isn't what it used to be.
Explain to us the process that makes a person a person. Are we a person when we are just a few cells with no brain? I believe so but prove to us that there is more than just a few cells. These cells are indeed separate from the host and they are most certainly human but are cells without a heart or a brain a person?
This woman cannot/will not answer a simple straightforward question on whether a fetus with a beating heart is human life. She continually deflects the question, focusing on "it's for each individual to decide" (what is life ...I presume). He asks her repeatedly how she feels about the fetus in the womb with a beating heart. She responds with "It's not viable" as though that is the question and as though that matters. So, an individual decides what is life? Isn't that playing God? I get to decide if you live or die? The life of One who is already alive is subject to the whim of another?
She claims that no taxpayer dollars fund abortion; but, how can you make that claim when anyone knows that if the federal government is "reimbursing" (her word) PP for other services, this allows them to allocate more of their resources to abortion services, so it does amount to taxpayer funding of abortion. In other words, it's simply a shell game. You give us $100 for cancer screenings and this allows us to take $100 of our own resources from screenings and target them to abortion services.
I saw this interview life and was appalled by the woman's unwillingness to answer a very simple question.
That to me says enough how badly Planned Parenthood wants to kill more babies.
This argument is an old one and is resolvable only through individual belief. There is no universal truth. An embryo begins as a pile of cells. Nothing flagging it as human but with the potential to go there. It organizes to a embryo and then grows to a fetus. That fetus then develops and becomes a human infant. At some point in the process the creature becomes a human person.
This entire process is a continuum. Nothing happens at some instant. So person-hood is a legalistic concept. It has no roots in the involved biology.
Even the Roman Catholic Church agrees one does not baptize menstual waste. If you really believe life begins at conception every period when the women is sexually active would potential be a miscarriage and therefore require baptism. But that is not the doctrine.
So we let the individual decide.
And why on earth would we harrass the provider of services that the woman wants? We into the we know better business? Is that really useful?
You don't even need to drag religion into the debate, which is what they were saying if you noticed. I try to make a point to not drag religion into the discussion. I'm also not Roman Catholic, therefore I could care less what the RCC stance is on any of this.
The question remains: When does a human become a human. 99.9% of us can agree that sperms and eggs are not human, so for that much there is overwhelming consensus. But from fertilization on, there is absolutely no consensus. I would, however, make the point that pro-abortion advocacy has a whole lot of outside agendas. The moment they say, "That's not fair to the woman!" then any untainted opinion concerning the humanity of the embryo is lost. The question in the mind of the pro-abortionist changes from, "Is it human?" to "How long can we delay admitting humanity in the interests of the rights of the woman?" The pro-abortionist opinion is even further tainted by zero-population advocacy, which remains a strong voice on the Left. It is further tainted by questions about, "What do we do with all the unwanted babies?" All of these things are unnecessary distractions to the core question and lead the pro-abortionist to want to constantly move the goalposts around.
The pro-life side is tainted by religion. The determination as to when humanity begins must be made independent of religion. When it comes to the law of the land, religion should be irrelevant.
Independent of ulterior motives and influences, can we ever establish when human life actually begins? We can fully anticipate that there will never be a strong consensus on the matter. So who decides? I would say it's a matter for the same people who determine the value of human life at all other times. When a 20 year old man or woman is killed, who makes the rules regarding what to do about that? Is it murder? Was it self defense? Was it an accidental death in which nobody is at fault? Was it suicide? If so, is that wrong/illegal? What if it's assisted suicide? What if the person was a murderer who was being executed for their crime? Is that okay? Where do we look for answers to theses questions? It is not the Supreme Court to be sure. No, it is state and local legislative bodies who have long since written the rules.
This leads me to my biggest question on the entire issue: If state and local legislatures have the final say regarding all issues surrounding the termination of human life in all other cases, why is abortion an exception? Why did the Supreme Court ever conclude that they had any business ruling on this issue? Right to privacy is a nonsensical excuse. The Supreme Court does nothing about the NSA invading our privacy every single day. The Supreme Court clearly could care less about clear cut cases of invasion of privacy. And it is certainly not legal for me to murder my own children in the privacy of my own home. No, right to privacy certainly doesn't help me there. The state legislature always should have had the final say on the matter. If the state of Texas decides that human life begins at conception, then within the state of Texas that is when human life begins. If the state of New York decides that human life begins at birth, then in the state of New York, that is when human life begins. I think you have to toss it in there with capital punishment as a controversial issue and let the states decide what they want to do with it.
And no, the determination of "What is human life?" has never been an individual decision. In civilized society, it always has been and always will be governed by laws.
You don't even need to drag religion into the debate, which is what they were saying if you noticed. I try to make a point to not drag religion into the discussion. I'm also not Roman Catholic, therefore I could care less what the RCC stance is on any of this.
The question remains: When does a human become a human. 99.9% of us can agree that sperms and eggs are not human,
Yes they are. To simplify. Let's say there is a murder investigation. There is a substance on the floor. (Semen) The first thing they will determine is if it's human or not.
Maybe it's picking at straws but there is "Human" and a Human being. They are not necessarily the same thing. If I spit it can be determined to be human spit. It is never going to be a human being though.
Yes they are. To simplify. Let's say there is a murder investigation. There is a substance on the floor. (Semen) The first thing they will determine is if it's human or not.
Maybe it's picking at straws but there is "Human" and a Human being. They are not necessarily the same thing. If I spit it can be determined to be human spit. It is never going to be a human being though.
LOL, fair enough! Still, I think everyone knows what I meant. I meant "human" the noun and not "human" the adjective.
So a "journalist" basically spent 4 minutes trying to get someone to give a personal opinion?
She wasn't going to answer the question. It doesn't matter if that's right or wrong, she's not going to do it, why keep doing it? Well, I know why. He and his executives knew she wouldn't answer the question and they'd like to use that as their talking point. It worked obviously, since this thread exists. And let's face it, the question isn't that vital. The reason she was their was to address to problem she sees with the bill being proposed. What she thinks of abortion as an individual is ultimately irrelevant since she's not there as an individual; she's representing an organization. The stance of Planned Parenthood is that a person should have the option to choose if an abortion is right for them, which is what she kept saying. Ultimately, the question was designed to not be answered because an answer may very well be worse.
Why people bother to go on or watch cable news remains a mystery.
"So a "journalist" basically spent 4 minutes trying to get someone to give a personal opinion?
She wasn't going to answer the question."
So, why was she there if NOT to answer questions about PP and abortions?
Underlying thing: There are a lot of Americans who find abortion morally reprehensible. Those Americans were promised that taxpayer money would not in any way shape or form pay for abortions. That is the only tiny concession that the pro-life movement gets. Planned Parenthood lies and lies and lies. They claim that they are offering services that they actually aren't. Their "non-abortion services" are often pre-abortion processes. Things like ultrasounds. A pregnant woman walking into a Planned Parenthood can expect to receive one and only one service: An abortion.
PP plays a clever game. If they can count 10 different things leading up to an abortion as separate processes from the abortion itself, now they can claim that "only 10% of what we do at PP is abortions." And obviously, they bold-faced lie about what services they offer. I love the call where the recording explicitly says that PP offers prenatal care, then 10 seconds later the worker at the clinic is telling her "we don't offer prenatal care." Kinda fun like that.
I think PP has the right to exist. The Supreme Court gave them that with Roe v Wade. But they do not have the right to taxpayer money. If pro-choicers are so passionate about it, then by all means donate money to PP to keep them up and running.
Seems you should talk to at least a few women who have used the services of PP before you continue insisting on your particular point of view, but on the other hand...
Your premise, the "underlying thing," is the cornerstone of your opinion. If you can't or won't or don't recognized that there are a lot of Americans who don't "find abortion morally reprehensible," then further discussion/debate is pointless. Of course this thread is just as pointless as all the others, but just saying...
Abortion is a very sad, troubling and emotional issue for lots of Americans, certainly lots of women, but not "morally reprehensible."
Accordingly, maybe if you can explain why abortion SHOULD be morally reprehensible for ALL Americans, maybe you can better justify your opinion. Fair?
I saw this interview life and was appalled by the woman's unwillingness to answer a very simple question.
That to me says enough how badly Planned Parenthood wants to kill more babies.
It is not about the mothers but about the money!
Doesn't matter if it's human life, it ain't a baby no matter how much you close your eyes, fold your arms & nod your head.
So happy PP was available for my abortion, not one regret.
I wasn't going to respond to this till I read through it. Responding to the bolded:
What is the life that is in the womb if it isn't human? It can't be something else, can it?
If it has a beating heart, and is growing, it must be alive. Right?
If it's not "already human," at what point does it become human?
This isn't a "religious issue" alone, because even if you don't believe in God, when do you acknowledge that this is human life, and doesn't human life life matter? Doesn't human life have any value? If your answer is "no," why is murder a crime? Why does our declaration of independence acknowledge a "right to life" and make the claim that these rights are granted by our "creator?"
These questions cannot just be brushed off, as this woman did, and as apparently you are doing. When did you become human? Or are you? What makes your life valuable, or is it? What if your mother chose to abort you? Think about that. Is human life disposable just like so much trash? Aren't you bothered at all by the taking of another's life? Who decides when someone is a "person?" Is it just arbitrary? Depending on ones beliefs?
"Viability" has nothing to do with this. You should watch the video. That was addressed. This woman deflected on that issue too. Viability has nothing to do with whether it is a human life or not.
Obviously, the definition of human being is important here, because to kill a human being is against the law, and you further muddy the waters a bit by referring to what is human vs a human being...
I have met human beings, but I have never met a fetus, so perhaps I'm not well qualified to answer your questions. I am sure you have met a human being, but have you met a human fetus? Might the answer help distinguish between the two in a way we can both agree upon?
To your further question in bold above, I would not argue that a fetus is human or that a fetus in a woman is not different from a fetus in a chimp (that is not human). I'm not sure the difference between the definition of "human" and "human being" either, but I think it is pretty easy to tell the difference between a human being that is born and a human fetus that is still in development up to the point an abortion is legal.
Carry this line of reasoning to full term, and I ask you whether a sperm is human? If yes, then what of contraception that kills that one sperm that might have also been part of what eventually becomes a born human being? If a sperm is not human, why not?
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