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Old 04-04-2017, 02:14 AM
 
21,989 posts, read 15,648,158 times
Reputation: 12943

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bitey View Post
I can't wrap my mind around why this is such a big deal. The best argument for going nuclear is that neither party has ever required an opposition president's Supreme Court appointees to achieve a 60-vote threshold until now, provided the Democrats make good on their filibuster threat. (Whether they do so or not is still an open question; insiders say that the Democrat whip is not pressuring fellow Democrats to sustain a filibuster. We shall see.)

The filibuster had been reserved until now as a device for sinking obviously unqualified appointees, but those appointees have been torpedoed by other means anyway (*cough* Harriet Miers *cough*). If they choose to filibuster, the Democrats can bristle and and pout all they want about the integrity of Senate tradition and procedure and process and all that... but the fact is the only reason they want to preserve the filibuster for USSC appointments is so they can use it now and forever while hoping the Republicans will continue to honor the tradition of letting opposition appointees be seated without the need for a cloture vote.
The fear is that the Senate will become as volatile as the House. The Senate has historically been viewed as more stable by far. With the end of the filibuster, it will become like the House and even the Senate knows that. I have no illusions and fully expect the GOP will go nuclear. Why pretend? Just do it and then the GOP owns the result. The next question will be if the GOP ends the filibuster for legislation. Then the GOP will control absolutely everything and then when the tables turn as they do, the Republicans will have no power. The GOP knows that too. It's a slippery slope but I expect it all to happen anyway and the Senate to no longer be the mature body they have historically been viewed as being.
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Old 04-04-2017, 04:49 AM
 
17,300 posts, read 11,160,657 times
Reputation: 40672
Quote:
Originally Posted by Seacove View Post
The fear is that the Senate will become as volatile as the House. The Senate has historically been viewed as more stable by far. With the end of the filibuster, it will become like the House and even the Senate knows that. I have no illusions and fully expect the GOP will go nuclear. Why pretend? Just do it and then the GOP owns the result. The next question will be if the GOP ends the filibuster for legislation. Then the GOP will control absolutely everything and then when the tables turn as they do, the Republicans will have no power. The GOP knows that too. It's a slippery slope but I expect it all to happen anyway and the Senate to no longer be the mature body they have historically been viewed as being.
That's true, but that's already what happened under Obama to pass Obamacare or am wrong? If what you suggest is correct, then the Dems and Harry Reed already own the nuclear option as they were the first to use it. The repubs are merely using the same tactics that the dems used on them, no?
Of course the tables will turn again in a few years, they always do, just like the tables are now turned on the Dems.
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Old 04-04-2017, 05:20 AM
 
Location: Florida
77,013 posts, read 47,426,499 times
Reputation: 14806
Quote:
Originally Posted by pknopp View Post
If you would think of the actual ramifications you wouldn't want RvW overturned. If it was it sends it all back to the states which means Kansas could once again allow later term abortions. All restrictions on the federal level are gone.

Yep, some states can impose more restrictions. The next state can allow less. What did you gain?
That was the promise, and the ONLY reason millions of Evangelicals voter for Trump. Go ahead and tell them it was never a good idea, and they will say "thanks for sharing, but that was the only reason we voted for Trump".
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Old 04-04-2017, 05:37 AM
 
17,350 posts, read 9,180,345 times
Reputation: 11805
Quote:
Originally Posted by Seacove View Post
Please. The GOP would just force it later. No one has any illusions that the GOP would do anything different later - COME ON. Why would Democrats believe that?! The GOP has shown they will just do the nuclear option whenever the Democrats disagree, there is no point in pretending.
Really? How is that the case when they NEVER did this before, even though Tom Delay and Bill Frisk wanted they to back in the early 2000's. Harry Reid is the one that opened this Pandora's Box and Chuck Schumer is determined to push the GOP into the Nuclear option now.

I'll predict what is next ...... they will get rid of the cloture vote on Legislation next.
Schumer and the Leftists have made it clear that they will refuse to vote in favor of anything the GOP brings to the floor ..... so they will force the hand of the Republicans. Harry Reid predicted this when HE did his own Nuclear Option.
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Old 04-04-2017, 05:44 AM
 
1,184 posts, read 716,789 times
Reputation: 884
Nuclear option he will be appointed this week
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Old 04-04-2017, 05:49 AM
 
79,907 posts, read 43,992,125 times
Reputation: 17189
Quote:
Originally Posted by Finn_Jarber View Post
That was the promise, and the ONLY reason millions of Evangelicals voter for Trump. Go ahead and tell them it was never a good idea, and they will say "thanks for sharing, but that was the only reason we voted for Trump".
I don't speak for them.
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Old 04-04-2017, 05:54 AM
 
Location: Proxima Centauri
5,768 posts, read 3,204,333 times
Reputation: 6094
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cape Cod Todd View Post
Well as expected the Dems are still marching in lock step to block everything and anything Trump. This time it was a vote against Neil Gorsuch for the Supreme Court.

https://www.yahoo.com/news/democrats...183625283.html


What a cluster. Soooo when the GOP is forced to take the "nuclear option" and appoint Gorsuch will the Dems still fight on to have him removed or will they ignore any decision that he is involved in?


What a bitter mess.
It's a mess alright. The Republicans spent almost a year stonewalling Obama's nominee. I'm sick of the oligarchy marching this country to the rear.

When do we become a democracy again?
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Old 04-04-2017, 05:57 AM
 
34,620 posts, read 21,506,627 times
Reputation: 22232
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tonyafd View Post
It's a mess alright. The Republicans spent almost a year stonewalling Obama's nominee. I'm sick of the oligarchy marching this country to the rear.

When do we become a democracy again?
We were never a democracy.
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Old 04-04-2017, 05:59 AM
 
13,673 posts, read 8,967,136 times
Reputation: 10385
Of course, even the 'nuclear option' is invoked, the Senate still has the 'filibuster' available to members. The only difference: said Senator will have to take the floor and, in the spirit of James Stewart in Mr. Smith Goes to Washington, hold the floor for however long the Senator is able to speak.


No more of this "I filibuster" nonsense and then go out for pie and a drink.


Now, a few years back, I understood Mr. Reid's frustration at the Republicans filibustering most of Obama's nominees for the lower courts and cabinet positions. I did not care when Reid invoked the 'nuclear option', for I have long held that a President's nominee should be confirmed by the Senate, unless a valid reason not to confirm exists.


Of course, I felt that the Senate should have at least held a bloody hearing on Judge Garland. However, they didn't, and that's the end of it. It was a successful theft.


As for Judge Gorsuch: again, I think the Senate should confirm him forthwith. He is President Trump's nominee, and I do not change my opinion of things simply because the 'shoe is on the other foot'.


Let McDonnell invoke the nuclear option. Then let the Senate vote on Judge Gorsuch, with a simple majority being enough to confirm.


I do understand and appreciate the argument that Senators are evolving into Representatives, with the only difference being a Senator serves for six years, a Representative for two. I understand that the Senate rules were designed over the many decades to make it a more deliberate body, to force members to reach across the aisle to the other party to achieve compromise.


However, this 'filibuster' nonsense is what destroyed the Senate. Each Party is guilty of denying a President his choice of nominee (for various positions) simply based on politics. We, as a country, need to have these various judgeships and other positions filled. The Senate was no longer able to perform its Constitutional duty due to the idiotic filibuster rule.


The horse has long left the barn. Might as well invoke the 'nuclear option', and end the fake filibuster nonsense.
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Old 04-04-2017, 06:01 AM
 
Location: Florida
77,013 posts, read 47,426,499 times
Reputation: 14806
Quote:
Originally Posted by pknopp View Post
I don't speak for them.
Right, but you were trying to argue overturning Roe vs Wade was a bad idea, but it happened to be the only reason many Evangelicals voted for Trump, because Trump promised to nominate someone who would work to overturn it, and that is "in your face" broken promise.
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