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Old 04-09-2017, 04:37 PM
 
6,129 posts, read 6,810,838 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by troymclure View Post
Oh really? Assad has killed over 400,000 people in this civil war, and more than 390,000 of them have been killed with other than chemical weapons. How exactly does Trump mean business? Tell us, what is his overarching strategy for Syria? .

The Tomahawk missile strike did nothing militarily. It didn't disable the airbase. It didn't hit any chemical weapons stocks. And reports are Assad is back launching airstrikes from that same airbase. All trump did was waste some good missiles. Those missiles cost over $1 million each, so all Trump did was waste more than $59 million.

I agree that Trump did not move any closer to stopping the war in Syria or stopping innocent citizens from dying. He just stopped them from dying via chemical attack, but they'll still end up dead.


I disagree that it means nothing though, because it DOES send a signal that the US will react militarily if it feels another nation is testing it's boundaries. That redoes the calculus for all the players around the world engaged in testing their limits with the US right now.


Assuming people are talking tough but don't really want a battle, it helps. If there are some world leaders that are not particularly sane though... well we'll see how they react (cough, North Korea, cough). LOL
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Old 04-09-2017, 04:39 PM
 
Location: Suburb of Chicago
31,848 posts, read 17,610,392 times
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It's apparently okay for us to kill people in the ME but we must not allow others to do the same.

And funny how we only really care when there are drugs and oil to be had.

The hypocrisy is galling. We need to stick our nose in our own business and take care of our own problems instead of pretending we're the noble protectors of the rest of the world we're helping repress and destroy.
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Old 04-09-2017, 05:03 PM
 
9,837 posts, read 4,636,611 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by WaldoKitty View Post
Indeed it was. Assad won't be using the gas again. He now knows that Trump, unlike Obama, means business and Assad's boy Putin can't protect his ass should he pull out the chemicals again


Poor Democrats and MSM like MSNBC. They are left with either defending Obama's policies or Putin's policies. Very bad week for them.
you are funny sometimes, clearly unintentional on your part, but still funny.

You go so far over the top as to be a parodying. Assad, hardly has control of his own pants, he is under control of the Syrian Military, and they answer to Russia, and have for a very long time.

Trump just made a fool of himself. His attack was pointless and scared nobody because everybody including you knows Russia is in charge, and any real attacks would result in too many Russian deaths for Putin to accept which means he has to retailate with US deaths which could escalate too far.

Thus Russia is in charge of the Syria, not US.
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Old 04-09-2017, 05:07 PM
 
6,129 posts, read 6,810,838 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by troymclure View Post
I appreciate your reply, but I have to disagree. The missile strike against Syria might have felt good to Trump ("I'm doing something"). But as noted it little strategically.

In fact, it might have the opposite effect of what you propose. Assad might think, well as long as I don't use chemical weapons, I'm ok to kill as many people as I can. That he was back launching airstrikes today would attest to that. And it doesn't seem Trump and his administration have any strategy for Syria.
I can agree with that, unless something new emerges in the next few days. I think Trump's only objective for Syria was to stop the chemical attacks and nothing more, which as you note can be argued as something of an empty victory.


I do think Assad could come to the conclusion that the US is no longer looking for regime change so they are willing to look the other way as long as nothing as publicly horrifying as the aftermath of a chemical attack makes it to international media. In other words "Do what you want just don't embarrass me". With bombs you can always claim you were "targeting terrorists" and/or they were using civilians and "human shields" therefore it's not your fault. Or you can claim the rebels really did it and not you.


Of course the potential for blowback lies in Iran, Russia and North Korea's reactions... not that I think Russia will do anything other than talk tough.
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Old 04-09-2017, 05:08 PM
 
56,988 posts, read 35,198,461 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tinawina View Post
I agree that Trump did not move any closer to stopping the war in Syria or stopping innocent citizens from dying. He just stopped them from dying via chemical attack, but they'll still end up dead.


I disagree that it means nothing though, because it DOES send a signal that the US will react militarily if it feels another nation is testing it's boundaries. That redoes the calculus for all the players around the world engaged in testing their limits with the US right now.


Assuming people are talking tough but don't really want a battle, it helps. If there are some world leaders that are not particularly sane though... well we'll see how they react (cough, North Korea, cough). LOL
The worst kept secret in the world is that the United States will react militarily. Who didn't know that? Reacting militarily is our default position. If we reacted to a situation with sagacity and equanimity, THAT would be news, not acting militarily.
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Old 04-09-2017, 05:11 PM
 
Location: Unperson Everyman Land
38,642 posts, read 26,378,527 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Loveshiscountry View Post
Congress never authorized it. High praise for someone who ignores the Constitution.



HOW WAR POWERS ACT WORKS - NYTimes.com
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Old 04-09-2017, 05:17 PM
 
6,129 posts, read 6,810,838 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by desertdetroiter View Post
The worst kept secret in the world is that the United States will react militarily. Who didn't know that? Reacting militarily is our default position. If we reacted to a situation with sagacity and equanimity, THAT would be news, not acting militarily.

Not lately. Obama was like "bump this, it gets us nowhere, I'd rather give others the weapons so they can do it". LOL. He was willing to aid in unilateral military actions (i.e. drop bombs from a safe distance or uses drones as part of a multinational coalition) but he really wasn't trying to do this type of confrontation. It pissed off the military brass but I totally understood where he was coming from.


Trump's just put us back in the "I'm willing to spank you" business.


I mean there are plusses and minues to each approach IMO, though I tend towards Obama's most of the time. I got where he was trying to go with this, but that did mean we could to start a whole new round of aggressive nations seeing just how far they could go.
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Old 04-09-2017, 05:22 PM
 
56,988 posts, read 35,198,461 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tinawina View Post
Not lately. Obama was like "bump this, it gets us nowhere, I'd rather give others the weapons so they can do it". LOL. He was willing to aid in unilateral military actions (i.e. drop bombs from a safe distance or uses drones as part of a multinational coalition) but he really wasn't trying to do this type of confrontation. It pissed off the military brass but I totally understood where he was coming from.


Trump's just put us back in the "I'm willing to spank you" business.


I mean there are plusses and minues to each approach IMO, though I tend towards Obama's most of the time. I got where he was trying to go with this, but that did mean we could to start a whole new round of aggressive nations seeing just how far they could go.
We don't ever do anything that has any lasting value, so both approaches are lame as far as i'm concerned.
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Old 04-09-2017, 05:29 PM
 
6,129 posts, read 6,810,838 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by desertdetroiter View Post
We don't ever do anything that has any lasting value, so both approaches are lame as far as i'm concerned.


It's hard to do anything that doesn't end up in a mess. That's why the world is so screwed up as it is.

Once you get a blatant killer in power there really aren't any guaranteed good options.


We prefer the Western nation style to killing. No blatant bombs/gassing unless it's in some other country, preferable a poor one without much power. If you want to kill your own citizens, just use your established institutions and do it slowly. Heh.
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Old 04-09-2017, 05:33 PM
 
56,988 posts, read 35,198,461 times
Reputation: 18824
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tinawina View Post
It's hard to do anything that doesn't end up in a mess. That's why the world is so screwed up as it is.


Once you get a blatant killer in power there really aren't any guaranteed good options.
LOL...true. That's why doing nothing is the best option. It guarantees that YOU won't be making the situation worse.
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