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Yeah, I think our Muslim citizens have assimilated, in general terms.
There was once a time, before WWI, when immigrants didn't want to assimilate all that much. But WWI changed all that forever, and we have made immigration difficult enough that anyone who wants to come here for life really has to want it to make it happen.
I know a few Muslims who have immigrated, and to a person, they all worked hard to both assimilate and become full citizens. And all were extremely proud of their citizenship papers. One of the guys I know is an MD, and he very proudly displays his citizenship certificate next to his MD degree. He also loves to wear a cowboy hat.
I asked him about that hat thing. He said growing up in the middle east, the only thing he really wanted to be was a cowboy riding the range in the wild west. He made it out to the wild west and now has a dozen cowboy hats, but he never learned how to ride a horse. But he loves his Dodge pickup a lot.
I rib him about that horse thing. He asks me if I have my very own citizenship certificate like he has. Other than a slight and fading accent, I doubt anyone would ever know his origins if they were to meet him. He's lived here for over 30 of his 40+ years. He's a good guy, and makes the best coffee ever.
He still worships according to his family's faith, but he doesn't wear his faith on his sleeve like a lot of Christians I know do. Like most of the folks I know, his religion is just something that came from his family and he's no more fervent in practicing it than most of the other folks I know, including the Mormons I know. And the Mormons do not make good coffee.
Most Americans that are not tolerant of Muslims are rural people that have never been around them. Many urban/suburban Americans that live in bigger cities are probably in close proximity to Muslims one way or another (sit next to them on the train, walk past them downtown, behind them in like at Starbucks, etc) and realize that most people are just people.
Not necessarily. I live in the middle of a 2.5 mil metro area and sure, there are some nice Muslims, but when in the more Muslim neighborhoods I'm reminded that 75% of my experiences and observations of them is at least slightly negative, and its formed a justified perception I now have of them that I never even thought about when I used to live in a rural area. Theres PLENTY of people critical of Islam and multiculturalism in the city, they're just less open about it because in a blue area theres a greater risk of confrontation and being shunned.
There was once a time, before WWI, when immigrants didn't want to assimilate all that much. But WWI changed all that forever, and we have made immigration difficult enough that anyone who wants to come here for life really has to want it to make it happen.
Sometimes you really have to wonder if people are posting from alternate realities. It has never been easier than it is today for an immigrant to maintain ties with the old country, keep his culture intact and avoid assimilation.
I grew up with many Muslims, went to school with them...from kindergarten through 12th grade. Both middle-eastern Muslims and African Muslims. They're people just like everyone else. They were on my football team, a few muslim kids played in concert band with me my freshman year.
Most Americans that are not tolerant of Muslims are rural people that have never been around them. Many urban/suburban Americans that live in bigger cities are probably in close proximity to Muslims one way or another (sit next to them on the train, walk past them downtown, behind them in like at Starbucks, etc) and realize that most people are just people.
The rural Americans that want to "take their country back" and MAGA have probably never been around or talked to a Muslim person in their entire life. And they believe the crazy Muslim propaganda that conservative nut-job talk show hosts feed them.
Most immigrants to those country "buy in" to America and they feel as though they belong here, can prosper here, and can be an "American", which means you are an immigrant to this country just like the rest of us.
In Europe many Muslims don't feel as though they are part of their respective country and they form their own enclave, where they do not assimilate to a culture where they feel unwelcome. I believe it is more the part of Europeans to mind their own business than it is hostility towards welcoming in these foreigners, at least in large part.
We don't have very many "terrorism" issues with homegrown Muslims, and even most refugees. The percentages are miniscule. And that is why it is so incredibly ignorant to want to demonize Muslims in this country and make them feel alienated, which will only create a future terrorism problem in America that does not exist presently.
Do conservatives understand this dynamic? I think that many do, but I don't have any idea what percentage. As long as immigrants feel welcome here they will be fine citizens of this country because they know how lucky they are to live in it, and appreciate it more than people born here.
You can say that, and that's your perception. I'm not talking about strolling through an ethnic neighborhood of Muslim Americans at night and whether or not you feel safe there. You might not. You certainly won't feel safe in many poor black neighborhoods, either, and you can feel that way as a black person as easy as you can a white person. There are a few all white trailer parks where I live that I wouldn't feel safe strolling thru at night.
That is not particular to any race or religion in America, it's relative to the economic status of these places. Many Americans of all races and religions are being left behind economically, and as our economy continues to get more high tech, I don't see a change for the better in store.
The issue is domestic terrorism from Muslims who live in this country or who have emigrated here. You had San Bernadino, which was one instance, and you had Orlando, which was likely the result of mental issues more than it was terrorism. Muslims own their own businesses and feel as though they have a voice in this country. You alienate them and take that voice away and you will have terrorism, and don't be surprised if it is your voice that is taken away next.
Sometimes you really have to wonder if people are posting from alternate realities. It has never been easier than it is today for an immigrant to maintain ties with the old country, keep his culture intact and avoid assimilation.
Actually, the distance and isolation from the old country is what prevents quick assimilation. The less the contact an immigrant has to his old life, the harder he clings to it as his emotional anchor in a new land when he doesn't know the language and doesn't understand the new culture.
It may seem odd, but when sociologists set out to examine a culture as it was long in the past, they never go looking in the mother country. Every nation moves along and changes over time, constantly evolving, but in the colonies where immigrants clustered in new countries for them like the U.S., they continue the old cultural ways and traditions for as long as their cluster stays strong and closely connected.
Since they never learn the changes that happened after they left, their old homeland ways stay just as they were when they left, like they were dipped in amber. So the songs they learned, the sayings, the general beliefs, and slang of the times remain here far longer after they've disappeared in the old homeland.
All that stuff gets passed down through native-born generations here as a way of teaching their culture to the immigrant's kids, grand kids, great grand kids, and down for as long as it survives.
That's how we got Southern English. It was once the way most Englishmen sounded over 300 years ago, but the accents no longer exist in England. A typical Southern English speaker would be very familiar to Sir Walter Raleigh, but not to the generations that followed Raleigh's.
The more isolated the American is, the more ancient his accent is. That's why the Appalachian accent is still different than all the other southern accents.
Speech is only one part of hanging on to the old ways. Southern English speakers are still using their mother tongue. For an Italian, a Pole, a German, or anyone whose mother tongue is not English, when their native language goes, so does a lot of their culture with it. Much depends on how fiercely the old ways are kept in any immigrant community.
And that intensity varies a lot from group to group, over the span of immigration, the numbers of immigrants, and many other factors.
But the closer the immigrants stay in touch with their old country, the sooner they either adapt here or go back home for good.
Last edited by banjomike; 04-15-2017 at 02:16 AM..
There are so many diiferent Muslim groups they barely seem like the same religian here. I work with many Secular Muslims. I have what I would consider middle of the Road Muslims with Relatives from Pakistan and Egypt. Used to have a girlfriend who left Islam, she was raised in a black American convert family who was part of Muslims of America. None of the above socialized with Muslims from Somalia, Indonesia, Iran, or any group that was not similar to their own.
1) The kinds of Muslims that come to America aren't the same as the ones who go to Europe. Poor Muslims go to Europe because they can get to Europe. Poor Muslims cannot make it to the United States. The vast-majority of Muslims here, came here with an education and a job.
2) Muslims are such a tiny portion of the American population that they tend to be more assimilated. But once their proportion of the population in a given area increases, the pressure to assimilate decreases(as is the case with all minorities).
There is nothing fundamentally different about American Muslims, except that they are generally more affluent. The ones who aren't affluent, and who aren't adequately-assimilated, are just as bad, if not worse, than the Muslims of Europe.
As their numbers grow, they'll become a bigger and bigger problem. Though I don't foresee their numbers growing much over the next decade. Our ghettos won't suddenly be swamped with Muslims, as they are in Europe.
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