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Old 04-29-2017, 03:36 PM
 
9,329 posts, read 4,104,395 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by petch751 View Post
Do you believe that todays version of liberalism is the same as classic liberalism? Please post you're opinion without it resorting to childishness.
If you want a good answer, why don't you start with a run-down about the specifics of each, and how they differ?
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Old 04-29-2017, 03:37 PM
 
41,111 posts, read 25,576,683 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Clarallel View Post
If you want a good answer, why don't you start with a run-down about the specifics of each, and how they differ?
I did, you should read it.
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Old 04-29-2017, 03:40 PM
 
Location: Pine Grove,AL
29,381 posts, read 16,302,939 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by petch751 View Post
Oh... where do I begin.... lets start with common sense and having a better understanding of human nature.
Understanding human nature is why im against classical liberalism. I dont look like the majority, human history shows me how the majority treats people like me when there are no laws to stop them.

Again, even people who are leading the Libertarian movement have admitted the same flaw, but they believe personal freedom should trump all else.


Quote:
Modern liberals / socialist obviously don't understand that incentive is much better than force. The belief that giving things to people is good is wrong, it encourages laziness and entitlement while incentive makes life much better for far more people. More people are served by people who give something of value in return for getting something of value.. both win.
Again, both sides of the aisle support force over incentive at times. Are you saying a majority of Republicans are just modern liberals or are you saying like I stated earlier, that you are simply picking and choosing based on what affects you negatively or what you agree with ?
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Old 04-29-2017, 03:41 PM
 
Location: Pine Grove,AL
29,381 posts, read 16,302,939 times
Reputation: 5926
Quote:
Originally Posted by petch751 View Post
I've worked in healthcare for over 20 years and our #1 focus was on taking good care of the patient. When Hillarycare was being pushed healthcare changed dramatically for the worse, healthcare became insurance centric instead of patient centric. Obamacare made it much worse. Yes when promised premiums would go down, premiums and deductibles doubled since it's passing I'm forced to pay for insurance that does not fit my family needs, in fact it's expensive catastrophic insurance. Of course I"m not for it.

But we've said this over and over and over and over and over and over and over again. And you still haven't heard us. Just prior to the election I remember a liberal posting on this forum... "just shut up and pay it". Yea, that fixed it. We spoke with our vote.
Hillarycare never became law.
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Old 04-29-2017, 03:47 PM
 
41,111 posts, read 25,576,683 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dsjj251 View Post
Understanding human nature is why im against classical liberalism. I dont look like the majority, human history shows me how the majority treats people like me when there are no laws to stop them.

Again, even people who are leading the Libertarian movement have admitted the same flaw, but they believe personal freedom should trump all else.

Again, both sides of the aisle support force over incentive at times. Are you saying a majority of Republicans are just modern liberals or are you saying like I stated earlier, that you are simply picking and choosing based on what affects you negatively or what you agree with ?
Actually, I agree, and it's politicians in government that allowed it to happen. Today, things can be good but tomorrow it could change. A smaller government is easier to change than one that is entrenched, keeps us down and is very powerful.

The best and easiset way to control people is for them to "need" government for survival. The more dependent you are the more power they have over you.

Last edited by petch751; 04-29-2017 at 04:12 PM..
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Old 04-29-2017, 03:51 PM
 
41,111 posts, read 25,576,683 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dsjj251 View Post
Hillarycare never became law.
Nope, but that doesn't mean that it didn't effect things. I know, I was working in healthcare when Hillary was pushing Hillarycare. Were you?
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Old 04-29-2017, 03:52 PM
 
Location: Pine Grove,AL
29,381 posts, read 16,302,939 times
Reputation: 5926
Quote:
Originally Posted by petch751 View Post
Actually, I agree, and it's politicians in government that allowed it to happen. Today, things can be good but tomorrow it could change. A smaller government is easier to change than one that is entrenched, keeps us down and is very powerful.

The best and easiset way to control people is for them to "need" government for survival.
A small government, at least what most libertarians want, would not work to do the good things you want or stop the bad things you seem to agree could(and have in the past )happen.

This is the reason we have a Constitution and not the Articles of Confederation.
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Old 04-29-2017, 03:53 PM
 
Location: A Nation Possessed
25,280 posts, read 18,419,650 times
Reputation: 22124
Quote:
Originally Posted by petch751 View Post
Do you believe that todays version of liberalism is the same as classic liberalism? Please post you're opinion without it resorting to childishness.
No. Classic Liberalism believed in liberty first and idealism second. Modern liberalism does not believe in liberty, save those strands which happen to align with their ideals.
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Old 04-29-2017, 03:56 PM
 
Location: Pine Grove,AL
29,381 posts, read 16,302,939 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by petch751 View Post
Nope, but that doesn't mean that it didn't effect things. I know, I was working in healthcare when Hillary was pushing Hillarycare. Were you?
When Hillary was pushing healthcare, i was around a year old, but that also means republicans were less than a year from taking over congress.

The changes you speak of, would have been implemented by members of the Republican Revolution, not Democrats or modern liberals.
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Old 04-29-2017, 03:57 PM
 
4,851 posts, read 2,264,454 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by petch751 View Post
Nope, but that doesn't mean that it didn't effect things. I know, I was working in healthcare when Hillary was pushing Hillarycare. Were you?
Healthcare became screwed up long before Hillarycare. Its easy and convenient to try and blame everything on the party you hate, but it isnt really accurate. There are a multitude of things that have conspired to harm healthcare in this country, but two major things are insurance companies and lawyers.
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