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Old 03-08-2008, 08:17 AM
 
Location: Great State of Texas
86,052 posts, read 84,118,875 times
Reputation: 27718

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Quote:
Originally Posted by FlashTheCash View Post
Dude, the students didn't make the rules governing the election. The government did. The authorities rigged the game so that only the religion of the majority would be expressed during the religious exercise.
I have lived in this area for 10 years. For 10 years the high schools have voted on this and there was never a problem. This was a local thing.
Now 10 years ago Round Rock was only 30K population and most of it native Texans. Today it's hovering 60K with most of the increase coming from California.

Locally folks are very upset that a loud minority pushed this through.
What you read in the paper is not always the entire story.
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Old 03-08-2008, 08:20 AM
 
415 posts, read 608,694 times
Reputation: 33
Quote:
Originally Posted by HappyTexan View Post
I have lived in this area for 10 years. For 10 years the high schools have voted on this and there was never a problem. This was a local thing.
Now 10 years ago Round Rock was only 30K population and most of it native Texans. Today it's hovering 60K with most of the increase coming from California.

Locally folks are very upset that a loud minority pushed this through.
What you read in the paper is not always the entire story.
The law is the law, dude.
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Old 03-08-2008, 08:28 AM
 
7,381 posts, read 7,664,569 times
Reputation: 1266
Quote:
Originally Posted by HappyTexan View Post
I have lived in this area for 10 years. For 10 years the high schools have voted on this and there was never a problem. This was a local thing.
Now 10 years ago Round Rock was only 30K population and most of it native Texans. Today it's hovering 60K with most of the increase coming from California.

Locally folks are very upset that a loud minority pushed this through.
What you read in the paper is not always the entire story.
The Bill of Rights was developed to protect the minority from the tyranny of the majority. Somehow I believe that you would be rather upset if the majority ruled on all subjects.
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Old 03-08-2008, 09:25 AM
 
Location: Great State of Texas
86,052 posts, read 84,118,875 times
Reputation: 27718
Actually I was commenting on "a moment of silence" being compared to a Muslim commanding everyone face east and worship Allah.

That is a little extreme and that is not what was done.
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Old 03-08-2008, 09:27 AM
 
69,368 posts, read 63,828,510 times
Reputation: 9383
Quote:
Originally Posted by StillwaterTownie View Post
So what's so bad about that if the ruling forbids a Muslim student from commanding the crowd to face east and bow down while he leads them in prayer to Allah?
He should have the right to request, just like the students should have the right to refuse. Its a individual choice.
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Old 03-08-2008, 09:29 AM
 
415 posts, read 608,694 times
Reputation: 33
Quote:
Originally Posted by HappyTexan View Post
Actually I was commenting on "a moment of silence" being compared to a Muslim commanding everyone face east and worship Allah.

That is a little extreme and that is not what was done.
It would be permissible for a Muslim teacher to suggest that her students face east and worship Allah, because no national religion would be established.
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Old 03-08-2008, 11:17 AM
 
21,026 posts, read 22,064,612 times
Reputation: 5941
Quote:
Originally Posted by HappyTexan View Post
Actually what happens is that the student body takes a vote so it's a majority rule if they want prayers at graduation ceremonies..no one commands.

3 out of 4 Round Rock High Schools voted to have prayers.

Understand the facts before you make an opinion please.
If 3 out of 4 students wanted to smoke pot on their lunch break would that be OK with you?
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Old 03-08-2008, 11:30 AM
 
19,198 posts, read 31,370,492 times
Reputation: 4013
The state, its agencies, and all its agents must remain neutral on matters related to religion. How difficult is this for people to understand? Local majorities are (in addition to being pernicious) entirely irrelevant to the matter...
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Old 03-08-2008, 01:31 PM
 
Location: Great State of Texas
86,052 posts, read 84,118,875 times
Reputation: 27718
This was student initiated, not teacher initiated. That's what was brought to court.
A teacher cannot initiate any religious prayer in Public Schools but it was previously ruled that student initiated prayer was ok.

This ruling now covers anyone initiating prayer.

And I might add..in Texas there is prayer before football games and there is a prayer in the Texas Senate.
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Old 03-08-2008, 02:01 PM
 
19,198 posts, read 31,370,492 times
Reputation: 4013
Quote:
Originally Posted by HappyTexan View Post
This was student initiated, not teacher initiated. That's what was brought to court. A teacher cannot initiate any religious prayer in Public Schools but it was previously ruled that student initiated prayer was ok. This ruling now covers anyone initiating prayer.
The case was settled, not decided. The only ruling issued was that the Constitution does indeed prohibit conduct by a school of elections to determine whether prayer should be included at school events. This is not new law. It is confirmation of long-existing law.

Every student and every other person in school has the individual right to pray there so long as it does not become coercive or disruptive. Groups of like-minded students have the same right jointly.

Quote:
Originally Posted by HappyTexan View Post
And I might add..in Texas there is prayer before football games and there is a prayer in the Texas Senate.
There may well be prayer in the State Senate. The practice survives because of a unique Constitutional protection. There may well be prayer before, during, or after football games in Texas. If, however, there is any involvement at all, in any such prayer at all, by any school official at all, then that prayer is illegal.

Illegality is of course often not much of a constraint to some folks. Rudy Giuliani is famous for it. George Bush is famous for it. Christian conservatives are famous for it. Nothing is illegal until some court with enough power to enforce its ruling tells you it is. The law doesn't matter. Common sense doesn't matter. You just do whatever you want until someone comes along who can order you to stop and back that up with force. That's far too often the right-wing version of the Rule of Law...
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