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Old 03-08-2008, 11:06 AM
 
20,186 posts, read 23,912,643 times
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hehehe... yeah I mean suburbia... I don't mind the long commutes, I hate bad drivers that are causing the long commutes...
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Old 03-08-2008, 11:07 AM
 
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Modern zoning laws have largely been a disaster, for several reasons.

One of the major ideas in modern zoning is that you need to keep commerce and residences separate. That's why you have large areas of rather bleak suburban tract housing without so much as a neighborhood corner store. Commerce is limited to "commercial corridors," which encourages the use of cars to hop from strip mall to strip mall.

There have been a lot of cases of developers trying to respond to market demand by building high-density mixed-use areas with rowhouses, apartments above stores, etc., but unable to do so due to zoning board opposition. Zoning board members are afraid that such developments might change the "character" of the area, and interpose themselves between the free market and public demand.

If you want to get somewhat radical about solutions, Congress could pass a "homeowner's bill of freedoms" that would overturn blanket zoning limits on such things as mixed business/residential developments, ban homeowner's associations from preventing xeriscaping rather than grass lawns, ban HOA's from restricting outdoors clothes-drying, and a few other energy-saving measures.

If you answer is to "let the free market work" to prevent sprawl, then first we need to limit zoning board restrictions on the free market when it comes to density.
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Old 03-08-2008, 11:10 AM
 
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Yeah, we need less zoning but still need some zoning otherwise a junk yard can legally be put next to a suburban neighborhood like in Houston which has no zoning laws... I almost bought a piece of property to build a house next to a low-income high crime apartment complex in development... buyer BEWARE!
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Old 03-08-2008, 11:15 AM
 
3,728 posts, read 4,880,522 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by evilnewbie View Post
Yeah, we need less zoning but still need some zoning otherwise a junk yard can legally be put next to a suburban neighborhood like in Houston which has no zoning laws... I almost bought a piece of property to build a house next to a low-income high crime apartment complex in development... buyer BEWARE!
So you need zoning laws because you might move next door to some poor criminals?

Last time I checked crime itself wasn't covered by zoning laws and I have a funny feeling that if it were, the laws would be broken.
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Old 03-08-2008, 11:22 AM
 
5,758 posts, read 11,659,933 times
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Zoning should be allowed to serve its original purpose, which is to prevent public hazards and nuisances. In any case, businesses with an "industrial" character (and that has traditionally included scrap yards, slaughterhouses, dumps, and so on) would be subject to more zoning oversight than businesses of a nonindustrial service-sector character.

If I want to open up a neighborhood grocery store in the bottom two floors of a 12-floor apartment tower, why should a zoning board be able to treat me differently than someone who is merely building an apartment tower with no retail?
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Old 03-08-2008, 12:19 PM
 
20,186 posts, read 23,912,643 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Frank_Carbonni View Post
So you need zoning laws because you might move next door to some poor criminals?

Last time I checked crime itself wasn't covered by zoning laws and I have a funny feeling that if it were, the laws would be broken.
I was talking about building a million dollar house next to a low-income apartment... unless u think that would be a brilliant move. I think most people think otherwise..
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Old 03-12-2008, 09:01 AM
 
3,631 posts, read 10,254,902 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Blue Grass Fever View Post
I think a reasonably good idea would be another public service works employing people to build mass transit speed-rail lines with connections to urban hubs.

Example: In Michigan, connect every dense city with another. Detroit-Flint-Port Huron-Lansing-Saginaw-Grand Rapids and so forth.

Problem solved.
That's a nice idea, but you have to keep in mind that generally when anybody even attempts to mention improving public transit, people who love their cars and/or won't see the immediate benefits of the transit system start HOWLING about how they "don't want to subsidize public transit when no one pays for MY car!!!!", as they always seem to forget that the roads they drive on are subsidized substantially more than any transit system.
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Old 03-12-2008, 09:07 AM
 
Location: Londonderry, NH
41,479 posts, read 59,922,726 times
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Supernerdgirl - check out the Railrunner thread on the New Mexico forum for an example of opposition to mass transit.
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Old 03-12-2008, 09:08 AM
 
Location: Living on the Coast in Oxnard CA
16,289 posts, read 32,425,868 times
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Government regulation is the last thing that we need. If you live by your work you already have the benefit. If you want to pay less on gas, buy a hybrid, or walk to work. Fail to see why you would need a car if you lived near your work. For those that want a large truck or SUV why would you put a barrier in their way? Your not the one paying for their freedom. If someone wants to live a certain way allow them the ability to do so. Some people seem to think that we live in a country that can force the citizens to act a certain way because of someone's belief system. If you want to spend little on gas and live close to work, no one is keeping you from doing that. Don't keep others from living as they want to live.
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Old 03-12-2008, 09:47 AM
 
3,631 posts, read 10,254,902 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GregW View Post
Supernerdgirl - check out the Railrunner thread on the New Mexico forum for an example of opposition to mass transit.
Yeah, I read most of it. That's the same argument that would be going on in most parts of the country, including where I used to live in Tennessee. My problem is when it's a place like Chicagoland and people that live in their cars in the suburbs can't seem to understand the impact that it would have if the mass transit system just ceased working. The CTA alone needs $6 billion + to simply upgrade the system we HAVE because it has been neglected for so long, let alone any improvements or expansion.

Just to mention something that's on the NM thread, and I know you agree, buses are absolutely not better. Last week i waited and waited and waited on an express bus for a good HOUR, when I know for a fact that the train probably passed by 8 or so times. A train might not be "on time all the time" but they don't have to contend with traffic and idiot drivers crashing their vehicles due to frustration and lack of attention, and generally will show up eventually.
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