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It's not that I wouldn't. Wouldn't you still be asking for a YES/ NO answer based on however 535 people have phrased a question?
This is a complicated enough issue that a YES/ NO answer is insufficient to ascertain what people really think. I'm surprised that you think it could work. Or do you know it won't work, and that's why you like the idea? I hope sincerely that'a not the case.
Again - don't misrepresent my position -
In my opinion (and of many of those I'm working with), the Congress should not make any decisions about converting our healthcare delivery system to a UHI type scheme without the PEOPLE, who have a chance to hear all sides, and who have a chance for their own debate, from giving their opinion, as a nation, on the subject.
A referendum, would be ONE way to engage the people.
In my opinion (and of many of those I'm working with), the Congress should not make any decisions about converting our healthcare delivery system to a UHI type scheme without the PEOPLE, who have a chance to hear all sides, and who have a chance for their own debate, from giving their opinion, as a nation, on the subject.
A referendum, would be ONE way to engage the people.
Which I don't think would work. What OTHER ways are there?
I know, those earlier posts were interesting, people were actually sounding like adults, unfortunately it didn't last very long.
I agree. I gave up on this thread 4-6 (30 post) pages ago. I just came back today to take a look. Now I see something about proposing a referendum of some sorts. That might be interesting, but I don't know if I want to read through a lot of "corporations are evil" stuff to find the point. The other thread about "Socialized Medicine" was actually running a little better, but people quit posting.
Yup...I noticed it and anifani noticed it and we both complimented the people, but it went downhill. I guess I spoke too soon. Some people just cannot get off their soapbox.
Yep, I was hoping . . . but I gave up and went away. Thought I would see if things had gotten back on track but . . . oh well.
National debate. That assumes people know what the heck they are talking about.
Why? Specifically, why don't you think a national debate won't work?
I have said why several times. This is not a YES/ NO question. This should not be an ALL or NOTHING thing at this stage.
You have said it would HAVE to be ALL or NOTHING. So I say it wouldn't work. MOD CUT
Last edited by NewToCA; 03-13-2008 at 10:02 AM..
Reason: it was clear enough, no need to be rude
To those who are disappointed by how this thread has turned out: I see why you would be. I should probably just stop posting, but it is tough to let alarmist misinformation be posted unchecked.
You probably consider my posts to be equally worthless, but frankly Greatday is someone who is representing the people of America with congress - this fact scares me greatly. To have someone with such extreme opinions speaking for your average joe is sad.
I have said over and over that any change would have to start with baby steps in the right direction and have agreed that Greatday's proposals could be a good start. What I get back is the same argument over and over about referendums, socialist states and illegal aliens.
I have said why several times. This is not a YES/ NO question. This should not be an ALL or NOTHING thing at this stage.
You have said it would HAVE to be ALL or NOTHING. So I say it wouldn't work.
Clear enough for you?
Well. Going along w/ the all or nothing . . . and applying that mentality to this discussion . . . here is what I see.
After spending A LOT of time and energy trying to post REAL INFO on this thread (and another one) . . . I then get told . . . this thread is for theoretical discussion . . . and not for discussing what our healthcare currently is, how it works, and what bills are presently in Congress (including what are in committees) as all this thread is for is to talk about what people think UHI should be.
I further got told . . . no one here has anything to do w/ policy. Yet, if I remember correctly, Great Day does participate in a group that lobbies for healthcare, as do I.
And furthermore, we ALL can vote . . . and part of the discussion in this political year has been about healthcare. And those candidates have plans they are offering up . . . but no one wants to discuss this REALITY.
Instead of discussing what IS being proposed, people are posting totally irrelevant junk about how they want to save mankind and how bad corporations are and how our taxes won't go up if we get UHI, etc. etc.
If we were to have a national forum, review, debate - whatever!!!! - it would HAVE to be based on REALITY - what we can do to improve the system we have; what we can do to create change, etc.
I mentioned something earlier and it got completely canned - dismissed! - with one post.
How about reforming healthcare by starting w/ reforming the healthcare insurance industry? That CAN be done. Congress CAN do that.
I'm reading a lot of criticism, but nothing actually useful. TM makes some good points as does Greatday, I'm not hearing that from others. Constantly bringing illegal immigrants and socialism/communism into this thread is not helpful and it's getting very annoying. People who are opposed to UHC need to come up with some alternate ideas not just criticize others ideas.
Corporations have a place in our society, but left unchecked especially when health and lives are on the line is not acceptable.
If we are going to define the solution to the problem we need to define the problem in an objective more accurate manner.
We have a 40-46 million number which includes, millions of illegal immigrants, teenagers who think they don't need insurances, and people who don't want to pay for insurance. The number is not accurate at all.
But yet it is the basis for having universal health care.
If it was only say 5,000 people who didn't' have insurance would you still make the case for universal health care?
The inflated number anchors it in people's minds.
We need change and reform, but another socialized program with heavy government involvement is not the way. Look at social security(which we shouldn't have), if that isn't enough proof I don't know what is.
Socialized programs and illegal immigrants are vital to the whole discussion.
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