Redefining the Middle Class ... Poor Mans Mindset or the Middle Class Mindset (Obama, solutions)
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They've lived years of frugality and obviously they expect to reap the benefits. There are people... "The Millionaire Next Door" types who continue living frugally and build wealth.
Right and i imagine many might wait to get married until they get their first physician job and then might get as much house as they qualify for .. and their old car might not be what a "doctor might drive "
I know some even describe nicer areas as areas that "doctors and lawyers" live in .
I think the OP is click bait of sorts and that people like to complain about why they can't do something or why they are in a position they are in.
I am middle class. I do believe I have a "frugal" mindset, not poor. I am VERY cheap. I bought the house I live in with cash (less than $10k) and so I don't have a mortgage. I don't have a car note. I buy vehicles with cash as well.
I have good credit. I have lived this way since I was poor primarily, except when we did buy our first home it was a stretch. I still own that home though and rent it out and make a good income from it.
I think too many people buy into materialism.
On education, I feel it is valuable and is worth buying but that kids should strive to do the best they can to never have to take out a student loan.
Those who didn't do well, they'll just have to pay but I believe most of you who are posting on this thread are probably old and think that getting a "blue collar" or "trade" education means you don't go to college. In my area all of the blue collar people have to go to college to get trained. Even as a part of apprenticeship programs, these kids have to go to college and oftentimes have to take out a loan or get some sort of aid to attend those programs. They just aren't as long of a program as a 4 year degree in a lot of instances.
Unless someone has a parent teaching them a trade, they'll have to pay for the education like everyone else and get in debt like everyone else unless they get a scholarship, like everyone else who goes to college today.
So, due to me being a "frugal" mindset, middle class person, who doesn't live above my means and who went to college and who has minimal debt (I do have one student loan I am paying off and that is all), I think the OP and most of the conversation is only applicable to people who buy into our materialistic and media driven society.
As we grow older we need to live smarter and not over expend ourselves or try to keep up with the Joneses. I learned this from being poor as I didn't have all the best clothes/shoes. I never had name brand shoes as a kid or expensive clothes and neither have my kids so I never thought that sort of thing was important. I know that most Americans do think those things are important unfortunately, but that is because they buy into the stuff media feeds them and their families try to force them to do. You would be surprised at how many times people in my own family and my in-laws have encouraged me to buy something that I felt I could not afford at the time. People make dumb excuses to make poor financial decisions.
I was going to say something similar, but you beat me to it. Lumping people into three mindsets with three limited definitions is just MUCH too limiting!
P.S on Edit (and after giving it more thought) --
However, the more threads I read on C-D, the more convinced I am that there are two main types of people who post about poverty issues: (1) those who think that most poor people would truly prefer to be completely self-supporting in an honest way and would work to achieve that if given the opportunity, and (2) those who think that most poor people would be content to let the non-poor continue to support them forever. I truly think that I am in the minority in that I think that BOTH types of poor people exist in about equal numbers.
I also think that some people think that all poor people are completely blameless for their plight, no matter what, and I also think that some people think that most poor people are solely to blame for their poverty. Again, I think that neither viewpoint is correct.
And, finally, I think that some people would prefer it if the poor would just die off, while others think that the poor should be entitled to have a comfortable life just because they were born -- and, once again, I do not support either view.
I truly do dislike it when people write as though posters MUST fit into either one "extreme" way of thinking or the other! (And, btw, this applies to not only issues about poverty, but about any issue.)
Last edited by katharsis; 05-08-2017 at 12:11 PM..
Poor Mans Mindset: Look to the government to save them, spend every penny they get,
Middle Class Mindset: As they become more successful, they buy liabilities and support their lifestyle on debt (take money out of their pocket). This group is taxed heavily to support social safety nets but few benefit from them. It is difficult for this group to grow their capital to buy assets as the rich do, they live in a rat race.
Rich Man's Mindset: Buy income producing assets to pay for their liabilities.
Generally speaking there are two types of Poor and two types of Middle Class:
The Stay Poor: Mostly not making much of an effort to move up the economic ladder. Perpetually stuck.
The Working Poor: Working their way out of poverty.
The Failed Middle Class: In middle class but in danger of falling into poor or at least they feel that way. Many has outdated job skill, working in outdated industry, or just struggling to keep up with the time. Many Trump voters in this category.
The Striving Middle Class: In middle class and feel they are solidly there or close to moving up to the next class of wealth. By and large are college educated, many work for in-demand industry, and generally doing very well and don't see their jobs being threatened. Many Hillary voters in this category.
I think the OP is click bait of sorts and that people like to complain about why they can't do something or why they are in a position they are in.
Why may I ask do you automatically assume that I'm in a bad position rather than reading and understanding that I'm posting what I've learned along the way to making a much better life?
Generally speaking there are two types of Poor and two types of Middle Class:
The Stay Poor: Mostly not making much of an effort to move up the economic ladder. Perpetually stuck.
The Working Poor: Working their way out of poverty.
The Failed Middle Class: In middle class but in danger of falling into poor or at least they feel that way. Many has outdated job skill, working in outdated industry, or just struggling to keep up with the time. Many Trump voters in this category.
The Striving Middle Class: In middle class and feel they are solidly there or close to moving up to the next class of wealth. By and large are college educated, many work for in-demand industry, and generally doing very well and don't see their jobs being threatened. Many Hillary voters in this category.
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I can agree with that although I break the poor down further.
Stay Poor: Don't make an effort and perpetually stuck because they don't care to try (some may also called them the entitled poor). They blame everyone else for their situation and they don't appreciate the help they get.
Gave Up Poor: People who once wanted and tried to climb out of welfare poverty (that are supposed to help them) keep them stuck. If they make $1 above the income limit they lose benefits they can't even begin to make up for by working so they stay stuck. This is what is meant by trapped in poverty. They begin to buy into the blame the wrong people game.
I truly do dislike it when people write as though posters MUST fit into either one "extreme" way of thinking or the other! (And, btw, this applies to not only issues about poverty, but about any issue.)
Then why would you think that government who writes one size fits all policies work? They don't and that's why so many people fall through the cracks. Free market solutions offer solutions to try to increase their customer base. If they see a need, they try to fill the need where with government, once pen is to paper, you have to move mountains to change it no matter how bad the law is. We're seeing this right now with Obamacare.
There should be no poverty in this country. Especially when some people have billions and multiple homes. The gap between the haves and have nots is out of control. We need the government to step in.
So you suggest we basically seize the money and assets of the wealthy ?
In California the top 1 percent paid nearly half the state income taxes!
In today's global world and with internet technology less of the wealthy have to stay in California or even the country .
It's no wonder very rich people like Tiger Woods have made Florida their home .
"The latest figures have just been released, and the top 1% paid nearly half — 48% — of the state’s personal income taxes in 2014.
That’s pretty generous sharing. The other roughly half of the revenue came from 99% of the taxpayers. Well, not exactly all of them."
About half the people who think they're middle class are one paycheck away from disaster. That's not middle class, they're fooling themselves. Champagne tastes, beer money, it's hysterical to watch.
Jn1982 I'm saying we need to tax people until we do away with poverty. There is absolutely no excuse for people having things like boats and wasting things when you have people living paycheck to paycheck.
Right and I said that taking them so much could push them away .
Then you end up getting no tax money from them .
In regards to boats , there are people that work on the boats, repair boats , sell boats .
All their jobs would be gone if you didn't allow people to have boats ..
The number of people working on homes is huge . Right now the housing market is strong and in my area the local Home Depot's are always packed .
You start saying people can't own second homes or vacation homes or can't live in a home over X sq ft
Guess what happens ?
Yup .. all those workers lose their jobs .
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