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I agree. What I don't agree is the lack of courtesy and respect. These students showed no manners with the excuse of freedom of not to listen.
Other students want to listen and then these rude for these students walk out in the middle of the speech that is part of the ceremony. If they know they don't want to hear the VP, then don't go to the speech.
If I was the university president I would not give the diplomas in front of the audience if they walk out on any part of the ceremony. They would have to go to the office and pick them up.
So what was your opinion when at the same school they shouted over Obama's commencement speech?
You know, I support the right to protest. And to disagree. What's more, I didn't vote for Trump, nor would I if my life depended on it. Just so you're clear on that.
But I am wondering if all this highly visible protesting, the walkouts, the shouting down of speakers, and rioting campuses, aren't inflicting a deep wound on the cause they are trying to espouse?
Before you leap to your keyboards, consider this for a moment. A strong and healthy democracy is based on informed and respectful debate. Not intimidation, not shouting down, not bullying. And the people who walked out of Pence's speech or keep conservatives from speaking on college campuses, are just as bad as the most egregious Trump supporter. More to the point, they are hardly presenting an attractive alternative.
In that sense, a bevy of privileged kids from upper-income households walking out on the Vice President during a speech is a stunt, one that flies against the traditions of a successful democracy. You listen, then you pipe up with a rebuttal. You don't choose to not listen. The Notre Dame walkout? All it did was to underscore the point Trump was making all along in 2016. In fact, I can practically quote the guy now: "These people aren't interested in the lives of ordinary Americans, what with their fancy schmancy private colleges and mom and dad paying their tuition. They want to live in their own little world and not be bothered by the reality of the Other America."
I called Trump's victory in May last year. Everybody thought I was insane. But I knew something was up. I knew he didn't need a majority of the popular vote. He only needed to win over voters in the Rust Belt, places that had traditionally voted Democratic. The West Virginia and Pennsylvania coal fields. The emptying cities of eastern Ohio. Places that Hillary Clinton never bothered to campaign, because they just didn't matter to her or her coterie. Those people walking out of Pence's speech are part and parcel of the same mindset. But if they don't listen to the other side, they certainly won't equipped to debate it.
Here's an idea for those who detest Trump and all he stands for. Try something besides incoherent rage. Try something besides disrupting speeches and impotent marching on the Capitol wearing ***** hats. Have a coherent vision for governance that flies in the face of all that Trump says. Offer an economic vision that actually helps the people who voted the bastard in.
In other words, quit dragging out the same tired publicity stunts. For cheap and lazy symbolism isn't going to fight an ideology that, somehow and someway, has tapped into large sections of the American mindset.
As a Domer, my opinion is that the walkout was a misdirected protest. It should have been done away from the commencement ceremony. There are families who traveled from far across the country or even overseas to attend. The coherency and dignity of the event should not have been disrupted. I am an old school "Domer". Personally, I am surprised that a conservative VP was protested that shockingly. ND was deeply conservative "back in the day". President Reagan came to visit campus. He had portrayed a role in a film about Knute Rockne. The 80s students were shown old film clips of Reagan's portrayal. He was cheered loudly with uniform applause. Decades later, the campus has definitely veered from its conservative roots (to some degree).
I studied Agent Orange in graduate school and reviewed many historical protests. The Anti-War Movement of the 1960s and early 1970s was extreme. But I don't recall reading anywhere that a graduation was disrupted. Even the Anti-War Movement with the radical Berkeley students respected the commencement exercise and protested elsewhere. I read about Kent State. I know the Democrats dealt with the Anti-War Protests in the 1968 convention of Chicago. The Republicans were protested by wounded Vietnam Veterans at the 1972 convention of Miami Beach as shown in "Born on the 4th of July". Some Vietnam Veterans filed a class action lawsuit against chemical companies regarding exposure to Agent Orange in the war's aftermath. The Anti-War Protesters were right - Agent Orange is still causing problems decades later, and the "Domino Effect" was false. The Communist countries of Southeast Asia actually went to war against each other after the US left. My public health research was meant to support the cause of the Veterans affected by Agent Orange.
But I don't recall reading or seeing old news clips about the Anti-War Movement disrupting a campus graduation. It's bizarre that some modern ND students would do that. So as a Domer I am disappointed. The campus was deeply conservative back in the early days of the 20th century. I am surprised it has gotten that liberal (to be honest) - very surprised. I still remember ND students cheering the ultra-conservative President Reagan in his prime. Times sure have changed.
As for me, I am a moderate. I am not ultra-conservative or ultra-liberal. I tend to be in the "middle" and moderate. I am Catholic and went to the Grotto many times on campus, so I generally support the Church's views regarding abortion or other "controversial" topics. However, I do support healthcare reform as a public health graduate. And I don't support hate crimes against LGBT like in the case of Matthew Shephard of Wyoming. I was working in Boulder at the time and remember the horror of the news. My moderate conservatism was actually kind of "liberal" at ND back in the day. Nowadays I guess I would be considered "aggressively conservative" by many current Domers. Go figure.
Last edited by grad_student200; 05-26-2017 at 11:36 PM..
[1966] The 145th Commencement becomes “unusually dramatic” when the college confers an honorary degree upon Secretary of Defense Robert S. McNamara. Some students and faculty members say the honor implies endorsement of the Vietnam War. McNamara meets with students before the ceremony to answer questions about the war and the draft. Thirty-six seniors wear white armbands over their graduation gowns. One, Elliott Isenberg, crosses the platform, stops, refuses to accept his diploma and quietly returns to his seat. When McNamara’s degree is conferred, some 20 graduating seniors walk out of the ceremony, at which point most of the audience gives the secretary a standing ovation. Isenberg is now a psychologist. He said in a 2011 class note that his Amherst diploma is likely the only one signed by two presidents.
So what was your opinion when at the same school they shouted over Obama's commencement speech?
The opinion. Courtesy and civility applies in my opinion regardless of who is the speaker.
I can see you tried to pull me into a political arena when my point is solely about civility.
The opinion. Courtesy and civility applies in my opinion regardless of who is the speaker.
I can see you tried to pull me into a political arena when my point is solely about civility.
The opinion. Courtesy and civility applies in my opinion regardless of who is the speaker.
I can see you tried to pull me into a political arena when my point is solely about civility.
No not at all.I asked what your opinion was when they same school had President Obama speaking and they didn't walk out but booed him,a question you still have not answered.
[1966] The 145th Commencement becomes “unusually dramatic” when the college confers an honorary degree upon Secretary of Defense Robert S. McNamara. Some students and faculty members say the honor implies endorsement of the Vietnam War. McNamara meets with students before the ceremony to answer questions about the war and the draft. Thirty-six seniors wear white armbands over their graduation gowns. One, Elliott Isenberg, crosses the platform, stops, refuses to accept his diploma and quietly returns to his seat. When McNamara’s degree is conferred, some 20 graduating seniors walk out of the ceremony, at which point most of the audience gives the secretary a standing ovation. Isenberg is now a psychologist. He said in a 2011 class note that his Amherst diploma is likely the only one signed by two presidents.
I personally feel it's extremely poor decorum and also disrespectful to any of their fellow students however who see Commencement as an extremely important hard-earned day in their lives and don't deserve the chaotic and disruptive environment that this "protest" will create. Attention-seeking behavior at the expense of everyone in attendance.
I think that when I have spent four years studying and paying several thousands of dollars to get an education, the day of my graduation ceremony should not be ruined by having to politely sit and listen to someone I have zero respect for. It's insulting to a graduating class when a college chooses a speaker who is so divisive and I certainly would walk out.
No not at all.I asked what your opinion was when they same school had President Obama speaking and they didn't walk out but booed him,a question you still have not answered.
I did answer. You need to read more closely. Others did get my point and agreed with my answer by posting comments in my settings.
However, I will try again. My topic is about CIVILITY for ANYONE. For the sake of argument let us say I am a pro Spencer and an anti Obama. Does my comment on civility become invalid because of my political leanings? No so in my opinion.
YOU deviated from the civility point trying to get my opinion on two different individuals. The topic is about walking out on a commencement speech and I gave my OPINION on civility.
This topic is not about my political leanings, it is about CIVILITY. So, if you want to get my opinion on the political arena, then use another topic in another thread. AGAIN, this is a topic about CIVILITY and I gave you my opinion on CIVILITY.
I repeat it one more time highlighted: MY OPINION APPLIES THE SAME TO ANYONE.
I think that when I have spent four years studying and paying several thousands of dollars to get an education, the day of my graduation ceremony should not be ruined by having to politely sit and listen to someone I have zero respect for. It's insulting to a graduating class when a college chooses a speaker who is so divisive and I certainly would walk out.
Is it insulting to EVERYBODY in the graduating class? I believe you are honest enough to say NO.
So the question to you is, do you believe that because others do not agree with who is the speaker it is right to be rude and lack courtesy to them because they do not share your views?
In my opinion, they deserve your respect as your classmates and to their families.
However, if you think it is OK to disrespect those in the audience because you do not agree with the speaker, I respect that even though I see it as inconsiderate to those people.
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