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Right off the bat, I just want to say that I am most definitely not predicting that Trump will be a failed president. While I have made no secret of my personal disdain for the man, I think that it is a huge mistake for anybody to underestimate him (which is something that I have been guilty of in the past, given that I thought HRC would win 322 electoral votes).
All of that being said, what I fear most about the prospect of a Trump presidency imploding is this: should he end up either resigning, being removed from office, or losing re-election, the GOP may very well descend into all-out civil war. The moderate Republicans and NeverTrumpers will essentially say "I told you so," while the die-hard Trump supporters will blame the "RINOs" for undermining Trump's presidency. Quite possibly, the GOP may very well end up splitting in two. And while it's true that the GOP rebounded relatively quickly after Nixon and GWB failed, I think that the Trump situation is different, because Nixon & GWB never had the hold on much of the GOP base the way Trump does.
Related to what I wrote above is that a failed Trump presidency could lead to a generational destruction of the GOP. If this happens and the Democrats become the dominant political party for the next few decades, the leftward shift of the courts & the culture will make four years of a HRC presidency seem tame by comparison. Indeed, this was an important reason why I could not bring myself to vote for Trump, even though I knew that HRC becoming president would give the far-left an opportunity to pack the SCOTUS & the lower courts with judges of their liking. Whatever good Trump may do policy wise over the next four years will be more than wiped out if he causes irreparable harm to the GOP in 2018 & beyond. (And even Trump's one big victory thus far--the appointment of Neil Gorsuch--remains an open question, as many fear that he will resemble Roberts & Kennedy far more than Thomas & Alito.)
Not to worry. We survived 8 years recently of Democrats, and things ended up pretty well. No need for me to go into how the economy was in the toilet from Bush, and how 20 some million people now have healthcare, because you will not buy it anyway.
You seemed so rational until you imply that Hillary Clinton is far left... did you even pay something that resembles attention to what was going on with the Democratic party? The way many Bernie Sanders supporters viewed Clinton, you'd assume she was a republican if you didn't know any better. I'm sure if I asked you to explain what 'far left' is even referring to you, you couldn't. This assumption based on my experience; people who can answer that question usually don't describe things as being left or right becasue they have a more accurate and more specific word for what they're talking about.
As for the split of the GOP, it's happening regardless of Trump. The debate is in which half will be bigger. If it happened right now, the more "establishment" GOP would be the obvious winner. If Trump does well... who knows. Many in the mainstream GOP are soulless, spineless, whores who will happily shill for Donald if it wins them re-election. They have no principles. In a way, I feel bad for them; they have to wait to see what Trump does to their party.
We are living in a politically unstable time it seems. I'd be happy so long as we walk out of the next decade or so still having politics at all. It seems many are willing to throw it away, just let someone else take care of it for them. It's very disappointing and it's happening everywhere. All I can say, if we do lose our politics AND there is a God and he sticks around after it's gone... he's a ****ing idiot. Something is not right here.
One thing I worry if Trump doesn't finish at least his first term is the possibility of some right-wing coup or civil war, especially if they don't accept Trump's impeachment or resignation as legitimate. I used to not think it was possible, but given the devotion those on the alt-right have to the man, I don't think it's completely out of the realm of possibilities.
Regardless, I think a party split is inevitable, but it won't last long. It will be like the split in the Democratic Party in the 1960s between Northern and Southern Democrats. After a few election cycles we will be back to the Dems and the Repubs, though alignment could be different than it currently is.
The Trump wing of the Republican Party is primarily rural and its aging.
Trump is the best president we've had since Ike. The guy is and always will be a ****ing legend. Trump will be the most talked about and admired president of the last 100 years behind only JFK (because he died) and FDR. Obama will still be remembered for being black 200 years from now, but he won't have the type of following Trump will. None of the bozos including Reagan will have the type of following or legacy that Trump will even if he somehow gets impeached. The reason for this is going to be the fact that the U.S. is going to be a train wreck in 200 years, and Trump will be remembered as the only politician that ever actually tried to prevent what will ultimately happen.
Trump is the best president we've had since Ike. The guy is and always will be a ****ing legend. Trump will be the most talked about and admired president of the last 100 years behind only JFK (because he died) and FDR.
My friend, it's time to put the bottle down, and go to bed.
Hillary is not a far leftist by any means. She opposed many leftist ideas, until it no longer became profitable to do so
I also don't see what's wrong if Gorsuch ends up becoming similar to Kennedy, if anything we need more judges like Kennedy. Those who don't vote along the party lines but rather based on what they think is the rational decision
Trump is the best president we've had since Ike. The guy is and always will be a ****ing legend. Trump will be the most talked about and admired president of the last 100 years behind only JFK (because he died) and FDR. Obama will still be remembered for being black 200 years from now, but he won't have the type of following Trump will. None of the bozos including Reagan will have the type of following or legacy that Trump will even if he somehow gets impeached. The reason for this is going to be the fact that the U.S. is going to be a train wreck in 200 years, and Trump will be remembered as the only politician that ever actually tried to prevent what will ultimately happen.
Maybe.
If he ever learns to walk. Right now, he's still learning how to crawl.
But more than one President got off to a slow start. Usually, though, almost all Presidents are up to speed after 100 days in office.
For sure, if Trump survives the present investigation and emerges triumphant, he could well become legendary. Even if he fails, he'll still go down in history, but not in the way you would want.
And as far as 'legendary' goes, it's hard to top Richard Nixon. He's a legend in just about any way a person can define the word, but being legendary does not make him any fonder in the memories of those who lived under his rulership. While Nixon accomplished some great things, he still is far from being as legendary as many before and after him. Historians rate him #35 in ability among conservatives.
While Lincoln, the president who was far more reviled than Nixon, is regarded as #1 by both liberals and conservatives as being the greatest President ever, closely followed by Washington, who was very popular when he served. So popularity doesn't make legends anyway. Some of our most popular presidents, like Grant, have the worst reputations of all.
Last edited by banjomike; 05-23-2017 at 11:59 PM..
I think Trump will be the demise of the GOP as we have known it over the past 50 odd years.
However, I do think that that will be a good thing for the party itself. The moderates need to purge the Trumpist and the Tea Party types in order to ensure they remain relevant.
I have mentioned frequently on this forum that most Americans are moderate. We do not like extremes. Contrary to what the extreme left and extreme right seem to see is that most of us are in the middle and we want stability.
Trump IMO does not have a hold on the "base" of the GOP. I think most Republicans are moderate, just like most Democrats are moderate. That is why HRC was nominated over Bernie Sanders (contrary to what the extreme left believes, I can understand how you, as a Republican would see her as extremely left leaning, but to many moderate Democrats, Sanders was the extremely left leaning candidate, not her, and I agree with them. I am an independent).
The reason why Trump won was because the GOP had too many candidates in its primaries. If there would have been 3-4, I don't believe he would have won the nomination. GOP primary voters did not automatically vote for Trump so I don't believe, due to that, that he has the support of the majority of the party. The majority of the party didn't even want him to be their nominee.
That said, he pulled a lot of people out of the woodworks who were not staunch Republicans. I don't believe that they will support any other GOP candidate like they did Trump. Also, we have to remember, that unlike yourself, a lot of Republicans voted along party lines for president - the majority did. They did this because, like you, they were fearful of a left leaning president. If a moderate Republican runs, they will vote for that Republican candidate just like they voted for Trump.
Basically the newbies gave Trump the win. Not the old GOPers. They will go back to their holes after he is ousted. I do think there will be a lot of whining and snow-flakey behavior (and IMO these Trumpist are the most whiny, snowflakes we have around, even moreso than liberals who I also believe are way too sensitive, but the Trumpist take the cake IMO). But it will be from those outsiders/newbie, faux Republicans, not the actual GOP.
I honestly hope that the GOP can go back to its roots. I think our country will benefit. I am a black American independent voter. I vote in every election. I have voted for Republican candidates and I do believe that if the GOP can go back to its roots, like "Ike" who was mentioned earlier in the thread, then they can be successful without all these uber righties and libertarians who they have let take over the party.
I think kicking out the above though will take guts and I don't see much guts in the current moderate GOP right now.
Trump is the best president we've had since Ike. The guy is and always will be a ****ing legend. Trump will be the most talked about and admired president of the last 100 years behind only JFK (because he died) and FDR. Obama will still be remembered for being black 200 years from now, but he won't have the type of following Trump will. None of the bozos including Reagan will have the type of following or legacy that Trump will even if he somehow gets impeached. The reason for this is going to be the fact that the U.S. is going to be a train wreck in 200 years, and Trump will be remembered as the only politician that ever actually tried to prevent what will ultimately happen.
So you have not lived in the NYC area, or followed Trump in the news since the 1980's?
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