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That's not entirely correct. How many black kids have went and shot up kids at school? And I know more white kids that did drugs when I was in high school.
Faulty reasoning---it's used often, but is NOT valid. You're trying to compare something so rare that it is statistically insignificant (i.e. "white kids shooting up schools") with something that affects HUGE numbers,,(i.e, "thug culture"). THe fact is, that ALMOST "NO" kids shoot up schools---(a FEW individuals have..and their RARITY makes them front-page news)..While "thug culture" is so common it's almost taken for granted. You just can't compare the two. Besides THAT, a large number of influential adults either 'excuse', or actually PRAISE "thug culture". NOBODY says a kind word supporting school massacres, to my knowledge...
As far as your "knowing" more white kids who did drugs...that MAY have been your experience...but it's ONLY your experience. I'd be VERY reluctant to accept that as the 'norm".
There are MANY reasons for the problems of the inner city--some imposed from outside the community, but a great number of them THE FAULT of the INHABITANTS. It could be a whole new FORUM...
But you can't use 'silly' comparisons like the one above.
The kids that are doing the drugs are the ones we least expect it from. I teach at an inner city school and I personally hate it when people characterize the entire black male community from what they see on TV. It's truly not like that.
I would like to hear more from you and your perspective. I work with educated, affluent blacks such as yourself and live on the west side of Chicago, suurounded by lower class blacks (hispanics too). I had to forcefully evict 3 black tenants last year, all of which came from alabama and arkansas with a sharecropping background. My handyman, who has a college degree, is descended from blacks who were in the bronzeville area prior to the 1920s. He refuses to have anything to do with the blacks I used to rent to and actually hooked me up with an attorney specializing in evictions.
This forum is not for this...this is something I can talk about for hours...Where the unfortunate sense of entitlement comes from, were the seemingly lack of progress stems from...it is rather unfair to lump the recent black immigrants to African-Americans born into a culture of cyclic dispair. Actually, the very fact that others of the same color but without the generationally built in ceilings is a testament to what is going on here in America...it is not a color thing...it is social thing...there is literature about this...read and understand. As much as people want to gloss over it, you can't ignore the effect of slavery and the associated mentality. This is something most immigrants did not have to deal with here. Far from an excuse because determination will pull you out of anything but the answer here is not as easy as it may seem...it is a very complex dynamic here folks. Again, smarter people than me have studied and written about this and I feel better to have seen the alternative discourse as to why our black culture is stuck in neutral...or so it seems. (Go to cities like Atlanta and DC and you will see a different African-American culture)
I think most Americans understand the history and nuances of the aa experience in this county.
There is a point where you (whoever "you" are) have to get a grip and deal with reality. Bottom line is nobody is going to care more about YOU than you. And as some (ghetto culure types) AA's in this country don't put a great deal of effort into their own situation....the rest of us are getting tired of footing the bill.
Faulty reasoning---it's used often, but is NOT valid. You're trying to compare something so rare that it is statistically insignificant (i.e. "white kids shooting up schools") with something that affects HUGE numbers,,(i.e, "thug culture"). THe fact is, that ALMOST "NO" kids shoot up schools---(a FEW individuals have..and their RARITY makes them front-page news)..While "thug culture" is so common it's almost taken for granted. You just can't compare the two. Besides THAT, a large number of influential adults either 'excuse', or actually PRAISE "thug culture". NOBODY says a kind word supporting school massacres, to my knowledge...
As far as your "knowing" more white kids who did drugs...that MAY have been your experience...but it's ONLY your experience. I'd be VERY reluctant to accept that as the 'norm".
There are MANY reasons for the problems of the inner city--some imposed from outside the community, but a great number of them THE FAULT of the INHABITANTS. It could be a whole new FORUM...
But you can't use 'silly' comparisons like the one above.
After praising Heaveno's response, Macmeal stated "I can only hope it isn't MY ignorance you're planning to demonstrate" when Heaveno stated his intention to use this thread to illustrate some of the complex variations of racism.
I may get bashed for my views, but hey, everyone is entitled to their own opinion. Also, since I cannot address the issues of Chicago as I have never lived there, my observations and opinions are generalized to the American black population as a whole.
As other posters have mentioned, I believe that the sense of entitlement among Black Americans runs rampant in our community. We fail to take personal responsibility, denounce the criticisms of our plight by other blacks as the opinions of "Uncle Toms", denounce the criticisms of our plight by whites as racist, and play too much of the blame game. Unfortunately, many have the mindset that "it's the Man's fault" and "when is someone going the help me out?" and if you dare step out of it and critically look at the situation of you and those around you, you are considered to be a sell out. Our community is stuck in a system of too much reliance on government support that started with 40 acres and a mule and continues today. As we continue to buy into what old time politicians and pseudo-community activists tell us to get our vote and support, we have no incentive to get out of the system. It only perpetuates the problem...
Our priorities are not the same as they are for other minority populations. Working for community organizations as a Big Sis, tutor, mentor, and health educator to youth, I can't tell you how many parents that I have met who are on welfare that will spend $150 on Air Jordan's for their child. Yet if their child is performing poorly in school, they say they don't have the money to hire a tutor or put their child in an after school program. Or the teenager that cares more about going to the mall to shop for "ice", get the latest gear so they can look hot at the club, or stand in line for hours in order to obtain tickets to a Jay-Z concert, instead of spending time reading to increase their vocabulary knowledge and reasoning skills to prepare for their SAT. How about the family that owns $50,000 cars, but has maxed out credit cards and rents their apartment?
On the flipside, I find it heartbreaking that there are so many incredibly talented students who have big dreams, but no one to support them. Even though they have excellent grades, they go to school in a poor neighborhood where their classroom doesn't even have heat. They may have the preconceived notion that their single parent won't be able to afford to send them to college because no has informed them of the plethora of opportunities available to finance their higher education. Their guidance counselors at school (if they even have them) turn the other way, suggesting hourly waged employment or vocational school. And in their neighborhood, it is not "cool" to be smart and into academics. If you aren't having babies, selling drugs, fighting, or "thuggin" it out, then you are selling out.
I think that what separates the poor, working class Black American from the recent African/Caribbean immigrant (and immigrants in general for that matter), is we take the opportunities that are here for granted. Immigrants understand that being in America is a privilege, and they are going to work very hard to make the most of it. They KNOW what it is like to be somewhere else on this earth. For blacks, America is as good as it gets, so what real incentive do you have to try to get out? I mean, let's take my friend for example. Her mom moved here from Nigeria with four kids in tow. No college degree, no money, no nothing. Yet, she found a way to send her 4 children to private school, all while working on her nursing degree. One child is a fellow med school classmate, the other is a lawyer, and the two youngest are still in college. Society isn’t perfect and America sure isn’t perfect, but I think immigrants truly understand the concept that this is America. America is one of the few places on earth where you as an individual can go from nothing to something. You have the freedom to make that choice because this is an inherent foundation of our society. Many people are not dealt with a hand of lucky cards to begin with, but overall, we have the legal ability to not have to rely on luck.
We cry out for help, complain endlessly about the system, yet we do nothing about it. I mean let’s face it, if we feel racial injustice, we work day and night to get Jesse and Al over to our community for national media face time. At the same time, what are we doing about the everyday issues that we face as a community? Nothing. Well, not necessarily nothing, since some get out and vote, but we continue to elect the same corrupt local political figures (how long was Sharpe James mayor of Newark?) who use race as a polarizing force, but do very little to improve the schools of our children, revitalize our cities (gentrification doesn’t count), clean up our streets, address the true economic and housing needs of the under-served, or advocate for improving the quality of life of local residents through job assistance and training so that many of us can get off of the never-ending cycle of social welfare programs. Or, better yet, we don’t vote at all thinking that we as a people can’t change our status for the better. We don’t get off welfare and unemployment because we have the uninformed mindset that we’ll make more off of welfare than we would as a waged worker (which is true in some cases, but certainly not all). We wait for our help because we feel society “owes†us something. Well, if we stay in our little box and without taking a hard look at our situation, we will keep waiting. We are the only one’s that can truly help ourselves.
IMHO, I believe that the two biggest things that are holding many of us down are the lack of solidarity in the community and the dismissal of personal responsibility. While I do not think that blacks that have made it “out of the hood†or those born into the middle class who have continued success should be obligated to give back only in a financial sense for the purpose of wealth distribution (you can flow all the money you want into a community, but some things can't change with money). However, I do believe that it is extremely important that in order to improve solidarity, we should turn around and offer our knowledge and resources (be it financial, educational, social, etc) to get the community going and create a sense of independence. I mean there is so much that we can do, too much to list here though. Like I said, America is not perfect, as no country is. However, hypothetically speaking, I believe that if I were born into poverty with my skin color, I am certain that there is no place else on earth that I would rather be living than here (have you ever been to an impoverished 3rd world country? It can get much worse in other parts of the world than anyone has it here). That’s just my 2 cents…sorry if I seemed to ramble or if the post was very lengthy.
I may get beat up too but I have to say this. It basically comes down to low standards and mentalities. You ever talk to someone about how important education is and they come right back and say "well so-and-so made it without a degree" or "its people with Master's degrees working at McDonalds". You ever talk to somebody about how important marriage is and they spout "nuh uh, its just a piece of paper" or "marriage don't mean nothing". Somehow, this [Moderator Cut: Language] became rampant in our communities and somewhere it became "insensitive" to tell people when and how they were [Moderator Cut: Language] up. Somehow, it became ok to accept mediocrity. You see it in schools, businesses, etc. Its to the point where the fact that a Black man graduated from college and has a "good" job makes him a "good" man and we better snatch him up quick! Are you kidding? That should be the norm! He is actually getting kudos for staying out of jail. That's ridiculous! I've been to highschool graduations where the kid's whole family comes out and hoots and hollers and goes nuts. I'm like come on, its just highschool, lol! See, these are just examples of the mediocrity I'm talking about but there are so many more. We have to expect better of ourselves.
Last edited by madicarus2000; 03-12-2008 at 10:06 AM..
Reason: creative spelling for inappropriate language.
As I stated before there are 3 basic groups of blacks in Chicago
1.) Ghetto Blacks (lower socio-economic, mainly descended from sharecroppers, decimated by decline of manufacturing in Chicago)
2.) African and Carribean immigrants (similar to hispanic and asian immigrants in that theu generally work hard and succeed, some come here more educated and affluent than others)
3.) Affluent and educated black americans (most from established families that settled in Chicago in the late 1800s and early 1900s)
However, it should be noted there are exceptions of black americans coming from sharecropping backgrounds and succeeding thru hard work and persistence. I am not a fan of Oprah but believe she came from such a background. It goes to show that regardless of background one can succeed if they study and work hard, though it is obviously easier for some than others.
Humboldt, you have such a narrow, ignorant view of black people that it's hard for me to take anything you say seriously. 3 groups of black people in Chicago??? Come on. I have several siblings and all of them different "types of black people", none of which you have included in your limited list.
If the only exposure you've had to black people are the three you evicted and the ones you see in Humboldt Park, you are definitely no expert (as if someone could be an expert on an entire race).
After praising Heaveno's response, Macmeal stated "I can only hope it isn't MY ignorance you're planning to demonstrate" when Heaveno stated his intention to use this thread to illustrate some of the complex variations of racism.
I bet he does. I hope he does. This is classic.
In case Heaveno isn't paying attention, or is too busy to respond, you are more than welcome to use my posts in any way you wish, to illustrate some (or even ALL) of the complex varieties of racism. I'll be glad to explain my position, admit any racism I haven't previously been aware of, and explain which things, in MY view, are NOT examples of racism, but other 'isms'.....
Hoping to hear your insight...
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