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Even in industries with high concentrations of illegal workers — such as construction, restaurants and some parts of agriculture — the impact isn't as great as many people think. If there weren't illegal immigrants working in construction in places like Chicago and Miami, then demand for legal workers would go up, which would mean wages would rise. But very quickly, legal workers from other parts of the country would move to those cities, and wages would go back down. The net impact on wages would be relatively modest.
Illegal immigrants do often take some of the country's least attractive jobs, such as in meat packing and agriculture. If there were no undocumented workers available for those jobs, employers would likely invest in new technology, replacing workers with automation.
Form the Wikipedia link you posted, ^^^ footnote number 20.
Tho since NPR is pro illegal alien, even they've got a BIG problem trying to say illegals are "needed".
Not as great as people think? Not as bad as YOU think either. You asked for data. I provided it.
Then you provide unsubstantiated opinion? Most of which is easily dis-proven with a little research. That suggests you are not really open to data conflicting your views
Attacking the source, not the data, is the work of the desperate. And Cherry picking to boot. The NPR article provides many pros and cons, and concludes "There are places in the United States where illegal immigration has big effects (both positive and negative). But economists generally believe that when averaged over the whole economy, the effect is a small net positive. Harvard's George Borjas says the average American's wealth is increased by less than 1 percent because of illegal immigration."
If automating was more desirable they would have already done it.
There is a huge shortage of construction labor right now and few US citizens rushing to fill the void. You can Google that one.
Bottom line: the net positives are greater than the net negatives. I'd rather that legal workers filled all our jobs and wages were better, but ignoring reality doesn't suit me either.
Even in industries with high concentrations of illegal workers — such as construction, restaurants and some parts of agriculture — the impact isn't as great as many people think. If there weren't illegal immigrants working in construction in places like Chicago and Miami, then demand for legal workers would go up, which would mean wages would rise. But very quickly, legal workers from other parts of the country would move to those cities, and wages would go back down. The net impact on wages would be relatively modest.
Illegal immigrants do often take some of the country's least attractive jobs, such as in meat packing and agriculture. If there were no undocumented workers available for those jobs, employers would likely invest in new technology, replacing workers with automation.
Form the Wikipedia link you posted, ^^^ footnote number 20.
Tho since NPR is pro illegal alien, even they've got a BIG problem trying to say illegals are "needed".
Quote:
Originally Posted by shaker281
Not as great as people think? Not as bad as YOU think either. You asked for data. I provided it.
Then you provide unsubstantiated opinion? Most of which is easily dis-proven with a little research. That suggests you are not really open to data conflicting your views
Attacking the source, not the data, is the work of the desperate. And Cherry picking to boot. The NPR article provides many pros and cons, and concludes "There are places in the United States where illegal immigration has big effects (both positive and negative). But economists generally believe that when averaged over the whole economy, the effect is a small net positive. Harvard's George Borjas says the average American's wealth is increased by less than 1 percent because of illegal immigration."
If automating was more desirable they would have already done it.
There is a huge shortage of construction labor right now and few US citizens rushing to fill the void. You can Google that one.
Bottom line: the net positives are greater than the net negatives. I'd rather that legal workers filled all our jobs and wages were better, but ignoring reality doesn't suit me either.
What you put up in "red" is a DIRECT copy and paste from the article linked to the Wikipedia page YOU posted in this thread.
Back to illegal aliens: all their kind do is hurt those Americans who can't do any better in life.
What you put up in "red" is a DIRECT copy and paste from the article linked to the Wikipedia page YOU posted in this thread.
Back to illegal aliens: all their kind do is hurt those Americans who can't do any better in life.
Yes it is. I am agreeing with the fact it states a "net positive". Your point here?
Then you revert back to "it is all bad"? You drinking right now?
That would explain missing my summation: "Bottom line: the net positives are greater than the net negatives. I'd rather that legal workers filled all our jobs and wages were better, but ignoring reality doesn't suit me either."
"Annually, the average income of crop workers is between $10,000 to $12,499 for individuals and $15,000 to $17,499 for a family. To give you an idea, the federal poverty line is $10,830 for an individual or $22,050 for a family of four (in 2009).
Thus, according to NAWS, 30% of all farm workers had total family incomes below the poverty line.
Most farm workers are paid based how many buckets or bags they pick of whatever crop they harvest—this is known as the “piece rate.†Payment in this format has some drawbacks.
First of all, if workers are being paid by how much they pick, this acts as a disincentive to take breaks for water or shade, as taking breaks would cut into their productivity and thus cut into their pay.
Drawbacks such as rewarding the better producing workers? The workers can decide on their own if and when to take breaks.
Anyone who ACTUALLY has worked in the industry and knows anything about running it knows that the problem with CA is that the costs to employee someone are INSANE!
If you pay someone 10 bucks an hour "legitimately", the actual costs after all is said and done (workman's comp, state/federal fees/requirements, insurance, etc... ) is far over the initial wage. Workman's comp alone will produce a cost of the employer that is nearly double the wage you pay in CA. So, you pay a guy 10 bucks an hour and the reality is you may be paying 25--30 bucks an hour when all is said and done.
This issue isn't a "illegal alien" issue as much as it is the government putting enormous costs on businesses.
Fact is, most will hire under the table (often legal citizens) because that 10 buck an hour job, you can pay 17-19 an hour and have savings from not having to pay all government mandates and costs.
This is the real problem, but you people politic on and talk about you have a clue about what is going on in an industry none of you have any experience running.
Yes it is. I am agreeing with the fact it states a "net positive". Your point here?
Then you revert back to "it is all bad"? You drinking right now?
That would explain missing my summation: "Bottom line: the net positives are greater than the net negatives. I'd rather that legal workers filled all our jobs and wages were better, but ignoring reality doesn't suit me either."
Then the farmers NEED to change their attitude so their kind DON'T "need" slave labor. Period.
Did you even read the article in the original post?
Some even offered 22 dollars an hour plus benefits to entice native Americans to pick crops, and they still couldn't find takers. 22 bucks an hour. More than fast food wages, more than jobs that are far easier that people inquire about on this forum.
Americans simply don't want to do these jobs. It's brutal, backbreaking work. Like I said, I wouldn't do it for 40 bucks an hour (more than I make now).
I know the anti illegal alien crowd can't comprehend this, and live in a fantasy land where if wages supposedly went up and all illegals we're deported, Americans would work these jobs in droves. That is nonsense.
Hey, I don't like illegals myself, but at the same time I'm not too ignorant to realize that some things illegals do very very few Americans would be willing to do.
$22/hour FOR SOME POSITIONS. I'd bet not the ones picking crops. CA's minimum wage is 15/hr. so 22/hr. I'm guessing isnt all that in CA.
All other articles say wages are mostly below, some at minimum wage. One stated for a full time worker wages could be as high as $30,000/year, half the average in CA.
According to the article in the OP the problem is the illegals are now more educated/skilled and taking better jobs so fewer illegal MEXICANS are wanting those crop picking jobs, not Americans wont do those jobs. Also this has been occurring over the last 5-6 years according to the article.
Different this year. trump's first harvest. He's po'd Mexicans; they are NOT going to cross illegally this year, too much of a risk.
Good.
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