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So it would seem that a quick summary of the first 4 responses would be: Yes, cut the estate tax. The super-rich should keep their money no matter what impact it has on the rest of society because, as a matter of basic principle, the money is theirs, plain and simple.
It seems to follow from this basic principle that property rights are worth more than human life. E.g., If a child is dying, you would not forcibly take anything from a rich person, even if it were absolutely the only option available to save the child because, in principle, the rich person's property rights are a higher priority than the child's life. Is that essentially correct?
Short answer, yes, sort of. It's a dishonest example though, because (aside from using children to appeal to emotion over reason) there are no situations where stealing is the only way to help someone. It's like..."You have to raise money for your kid's Christmas presents, but the only option is to steal from your neighbor. Do you rob them, or let the kid go without presents?" It conveniently leaves out all the reasonable alternatives.
Same type of thing people do in gun control debates. "If it saves one life, it's worth it". No, it isn't. It's not that we want anyone to die, but banning guns isn't an acceptable option.
I think people really underestimate the value of property rights. It's possibly the most important principle there is. When property rights are undermined, society falls apart. The entire point of establishing property is to settle conflicts over resources.
The one gray area is...would this person be okay with me taking their stuff to help the kid? Like if you're dying of thirst in a desert and come to a house where no one is home...it's probably safe to assume they'd be okay with you taking a glass of water. If not, you pay restitution for it afterward. That isn't the case with taxing the rich to pay for everyone else's stuff.
Bernie the commie: "Your hamburger is bigger than mine."
Poor schlub trying to eat his burger in peace: "That's because I ordered the big one and you didn't."
Bernie the commie: "That's because I cant afford giant burgers! Now im eating this little thing and I'm still hungery!"
Poor schlub trying to eat his burger in peace: "Sounds like you made a responsible decision to order the burger you could afford. Please leave me alone. I'm sitting here eating my burger not bothering anyone and want to eat in peace."
Bernie the commie: "You jerkface richyrich thief! I'M FREAKING HUNGRY AND YOU ARE GOING TO GIVE ME A BITE OF YOUR BURGER!!!!!!"
Poor schlub trying to eat his burger in peace: "Dude, leave me alone."
Bernie the commie: "It isn't fair that you have a bigger burger. I don't care if you paid more. I want 1/4 of your burger right now! You evil bigburger non-sharing capitalist pig!"
No I don't, and I see where you are going with this. But I can turn it around on you and point out that wealth is supposed to be a reward for hard work, not just having the right parents
I'm glad you see where I'm going with this, because it saves me the trouble of breaking down the fundamental flaws in your way of thinking.
And since you chose Paris Hilton as an example of excess and privilege that receiving an inheritance brings, here's a list of charities that she supports. It's a lot more than I do - how about you?
ACT for MS
American Foundation for AIDS Research
Barbara Davis Center for Childhood Diabetes
Bottletop
Cancer Research UK
Cathy's Kids Foundation
Children's Hospital Los Angeles
Clothes Off Our Back
Education Africa
Feeding America
Gabrielle's Angel Foundation
Gibson Girl Foundation
GRAMMY Foundation
Leeza's Place
Life Rolls On Foundation
Make-A-Wish Foundation
MusiCares
Olivia Newton-John Cancer & Wellness Centre
Playing For Good
Precious Paws
Race to Erase MS
Richie Madden Children's Foundation
Soles4Souls
Starlight Children's Foundation
The Art of Elysium
Union Rescue Mission
Caesar is the common denominator for all of us. If I've gotta render Caesar what lawfully belongs to Caesar, then dammit, I demand that you do too.
Caesar isn't a giant on a hill, he's you and I.
I make money, I pay taxes on it. You make money, die, and give it to me; I DID NOT earn that money so I should have to pay taxes on it. Doesn't matter that you already paid taxes on that money. I didn't. So Caesar must be remunerated.
Every damn dollar in this country has had tax paid on it at some point and time. That means that it should never be taxed again?
Short answer, yes, sort of. It's a dishonest example though, because (aside from using children to appeal to emotion over reason) there are no situations where stealing is the only way to help someone. It's like..."You have to raise money for your kid's Christmas presents, but the only option is to steal from your neighbor. Do you rob them, or let the kid go without presents?" It conveniently leaves out all the reasonable alternatives.
Same type of thing people do in gun control debates. "If it saves one life, it's worth it". No, it isn't. It's not that we want anyone to die, but banning guns isn't an acceptable option.
I think people really underestimate the value of property rights. It's possibly the most important principle there is. When property rights are undermined, society falls apart. The entire point of establishing property is to settle conflicts over resources.
^ Excellent response to an acrimonious, deceptively-phrased post.
But trying to use rationality and reasonableness with people who believe property is the root of all evil is probably ultimately a lost cause.
In California, that's more like "well-to-do," but not necessarily "rich."
The Obama years depreciated the good ol' U.S. dollar substantially, to the point where a million dollars, which used to be a vast sum of money, just isn't so vast any more.
An estate of $5.49 million in some states is somewhat middling these days. It does represent a lot of money, but nobody would confuse the average decedent leaving a $5.5 million estate with Warren Buffett.
Nonsense. 5-11 million dollars is unfathomable in most of this country. That's wealthy, rich, or whatever you wanna call it.
That ain't well to do by any stretch of the imagination.
Location: Live:Downtown Phoenix, AZ/Work:Greater Los Angeles, CA
27,606 posts, read 14,596,838 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nor Cal Wahine
I'm glad you see where I'm going with this, because it saves me the trouble of breaking down the fundamental flaws in your way of thinking.
And since you chose Paris Hilton as an example of excess and privilege that receiving an inheritance brings, here's a list of charities that she supports. It's a lot more than I do - how about you?
ACT for MS
American Foundation for AIDS Research
Barbara Davis Center for Childhood Diabetes
Bottletop
Cancer Research UK
Cathy's Kids Foundation
Children's Hospital Los Angeles
Clothes Off Our Back
Education Africa
Feeding America
Gabrielle's Angel Foundation
Gibson Girl Foundation
GRAMMY Foundation
Leeza's Place
Life Rolls On Foundation
Make-A-Wish Foundation
MusiCares
Olivia Newton-John Cancer & Wellness Centre
Playing For Good
Precious Paws
Race to Erase MS
Richie Madden Children's Foundation
Soles4Souls
Starlight Children's Foundation
The Art of Elysium
Union Rescue Mission
Every damn dollar in this country has had tax paid on it at some point and time. That means that it should never be taxed again?
I didn't say that, death should not be a reason for it.
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