multiculturalism and diversity is causing division. It does not make us stronger it makes us weaker and destroys the fab (employment, health care)
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
Location: Live:Downtown Phoenix, AZ/Work:Greater Los Angeles, CA
27,606 posts, read 14,577,046 times
Reputation: 9169
Advertisements
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chance and Change
You keep talking but I bet there are jobs these people do that you are not willing to do and you are likely not going to encourage any of your relatives to do those jobs either. how many people you know will pick grapes or even pick apples, oranges and other fruits, and certainly not many will pick the variety of vegetables we all love to eat...or clean the hotel rooms that we take delight in knowing its clean when we get there and ask yourself how many people you know would shell and de-vein shrimp all day etc...or the many jobs that "people" do.
We should not be so quick to down play the value of Any Job, and certainly not the vast variety of jobs that exist, because we have the society and environments we have because "people" do those jobs, we have the conveniences and luxuries we enjoy because "people" do those jobs.
China has well over a BILLION PEOPLE but they have a vast pool of migrant and immigrant workers, both legal and illegal and they know what the deal is, and the deal it, they see an overall benefit within it.
How many American's do you know who will go out and "cut cabbage" or "cut lettuce", most would not make it 45 minutes, they'd be complaining about Carpal Tunnel, skin rashes, complaining about what the sun will do to their skin, and for someone to tell American to get up at 3am and be in the field by 4am... go out and see how many you can get to sign up, and be sure to tell them what the days pay rate is. Not only will they likely give you a piece of their mind, they may even offer to give you more if you don't quickly get out of their presence.
The average American Family can't even get their own kids to wash the family car, and if half the family is not out cleaning the yard like its a picnic, they are not going to go do it if they see it in the context of the work that it is.
I watched the young Mexican guys climb the tree's all the way up to the skinny part at the top, and use those chain saws like seasoned professionals, Its not likely one is going to get American to even go up that high even if one has a cherry picker that could reach that height. then when they finish, they come down, and cut up the wood and stack it neatly and if the resident does not want it, they come back within the weak or another crew comes and pick up the wood. Actually people complained because the wood sat there for two or three days.
Even now, when Lawn Crews come if they are Mexican, they cut the grass, clean the flower beds and trim the shrubbery, the other crews come, cut the grass, use the weed-eater a bit, and they want their money and they are gone.
Go to an auto body shop and see who is there, sanding those vehicle or doing the had rubbed finish... one thing one is likely not to see in America is a young Asian kid cutting someone grass or doing any kind of manual labor, they are not going to rush out trying to work at McDonald's during the summer or after school, these jobs are often filled with working poor black kids, working poor white kids, senior citizens who's money has ran low and did not meet with inflation, and in some cities these jobs are dominated by Mexican people or other Latin people.
America is not these "Made for TV" Lifetime Movie Imagery, Those shows are about well to do suburbia, and generally everyone banging the others mate, or scamming and plotting to kill someone or something, and they are in Pristine communities. The Sit Com are just another take on the "doing well" segment of society who see's everything as Pun and Fun and sexual innuendos and nobody is doing any real work. they promote fad imagery and the life of ease with not plans for anything, because its evidently already laid out for them.
Who do you think keeps the grass cut along the Freeways, and keep the manicured streets in the nice parts of the city.. it certainly is not the people who live there, and it is not their kids and maybe not even their distant cousin. It is the working poor, and if the cities tried to pay them a living wage, the same people who want this well kept area would be the first one to complain. Let the Garbage Man not show up within a certain time frame, these are the same people who call the city and complain, but if they spoke of giving these hard working people a raise, again it will be the same people in the same communities that want everything on time every time, who will raise hell and push their council member to fight like hell against any increase in pay for these workers.
People don't want to face the Reality and Truth, because America has never been big on Truth in the General Community Mentality of the Media Promoted Imagery of Society. But they are quick to denigrate the people in these levels of life and want to strip and take away any provision or benefit that might make their lives a bit better.
If every working poor illegal and every working poor black person simply decided not to go to work for a week... all the people who complain about blacks and illegals, will be screaming their heads off, talking about "what happen in America" because they can't get the convenience they are so accustomed to. But these same people love to go to the Grocery Store and see those shiny polished apples, and waxed cucumbers, and the freshly wrapped heads of lettuce, but they have so little respect for what it takes to get it there and the people who's lives struggle with low pay and hardships... and if the people save their money and try to have a car they can appreciate or dress it up, because they can't qualify for a house or a the marquee model, and if they try to buy some clothes that make them feel a part of something, they are criticized and made fun of.
If one went to some of these people homes or communities and they had a family get together, these people will go all out to try and give and share anything and everything they have with you... and do everything they can to try and make you feel welcomed. but that favor certainly is not going to be returned to them....
I know it for a fact because I had many Mexican, Asian, Filipino, Black, White and other ethnicities as friends, and they were the most gracious and wanted to introduce one to everyone in their family and they were proud to feel appreciated and accepted. Some of the people complaining should try it sometime... they might find out what real life is... I've worked jobs well below what my skill capability is, and some of the people were proud that I worked there and it made them feel better about their jobs... Then some would tell me what levels of jobs they had in their country before immigrating to America, and one would be amazed to learn that these people are not without character, dignity, honor and pride in whom they are and they are quite intelligent.
Go to some of the communities that some of these various ethnic people bought, they have the most well designed wrought iron fences, and how they fix their front and back yards and the decor and trinkets they have in their homes... they show the various crafts they either made or their friends made, they do everything they can to make their homes look as good as they can if they have the resources, but they do everything for their kids if they have the means to do so. I have seen communities that were simply beautify and these were everyday working people of various ethnicities.
American's can learn a lot about "what is family" from some of the same people they are quick to complain about. They may not have the luxury items with marquee names brands, but they are proud of what they earned and do have. They go a long way to look out for each other.
When people trip about Multiculturalism, most can't get beyond what they think is White American Style, and need to learn what many other ethnic groups of American's live as their style which is a mixture of much....
You'd be surprised. A few years ago, I grabbed dinner at a Popeyes Chicken in Garden Grove, CA; and every single kid working there was Korean. I had never seen that.
Last edited by FirebirdCamaro1220; 06-27-2017 at 05:37 PM..
Only 2%? Unlimited visas? You need more than a fact-checker to validate that nonsense.
Well the problem with companies not abiding by the law is that they don't pay the consequences. Certainly not by people who patronize companies who hire undocumented workers. So yeah, if you're so gung-ho against undocumented workers and you do enough digging to determine that your local restaurant / hotel / grocery / landscaper recruits undocumented workers, why would you still pay for their services? BECAUSE YOU BENEFIT FROM THE CHEAP LABOR. And the companies know it. That's why they do it.
C'mon man. The Internet is your friend. You can find anything you want on any company with a simple google search. I just don't like when people go after individuals instead of the companies who are equallyl breaking the law and yet....silence! No mention of the American business staffed with undocumented workers. I mean how do you NOT know that home construction companies are using undocumented workers. There are a limited (not unlimited) number of visas for foreign workers. So you know those companies that are hiring undocumented workers. You know!
Off topic I suppose however the rap goes on & on for pages. While I can agree with many of your assertions, American people have been brainwashed with a particular ideological slant for literally decades, it sounds something like this:
Quote:
Individuals, business owners, & corporations should be able to employ anyone they please - anything less is government overreach.
Individuals, business owners, & corporations should be able to serve, or not serve, anyone they please - guided solely by the marketplace & solely constrained by competition, anything else is government overreach. & so on.
It's a disconnect when it comes to problem-solving or trouble-shooting or solution-providing.
The "legal immigrants" are not coming to America to clean bathrooms I'd think...
THAT they could do in their own countries.
They come to America for "opportunities" ( whatever they might be,) not to pick up the crops or to wash dishes.
Are you saying that the temporary workers aren't using those visas for picking crops? Really? There are many legal immigrants that start out washing dishes, etc. Our jobs pay more than they would get in their own countries also and just moving to the USA is a bonus to them. Americans have always done manual labor jobs in this country also.
You'd be surprised. A few years ago, I grabbed dinner at a Popeyes Chicken in Garden Grove, CA; and every single kid working their was Korean. I had never seen that.
That's great and interesting, - Garden Grove and Westminster is a very different mix as a Multicultural metroplex.
What is really interesting is visiting Foreign Countries and seeing the variety of work the people do, and see how much pride they take in having those jobs. Where as here, we get hung up on certain status frames, and in those countries people appreciate having a job. Its very much a big difference in America now, than how the US was before the 1970's, and after the 1980's it changed so dramatically that the way people looked at jobs changed. (but that in itself is a very long subject - some I touched on in a previous post in this thread)...
You'd be surprised. A few years ago, I grabbed dinner at a Popeyes Chicken in Garden Grove, CA; and every single kid working their was Korean. I had never seen that.
Hmm. There is a large Korean populace in Garden Grove. Does that surprise you?
Individuals, business owners, & corporations should be able to employ anyone they please - anything less is government overreach.
Individuals, business owners, corporations should be able to serve, or not serve, anyone they please - guided solely by the marketplace & solely constrained by competition, anything else is government overreach. & so on.
^
Then this I suppose becomes the core of a problem, a dilemma, what America REALLY is - a nation, or just some "free zone" for enterprise?
The "anti-multiculturalism" ppl would love to believe apparently that it's a NATION, yet corporations believe otherwise, and keep bringing more of the "multiculturalism" in.
What difference does it make what welfare that illegal use and how they are able to attain it? The fact remains is that they cost us $113 billion a year. Their anchors (which wouldn't have happened had they not been illegally on our soil) provides them with a multitude of government benefits.
The fact that FAIR wants to reduce legal immigration does not negate the facts that they have cited about illegal aliens. They didn't just pull the stats out of thin air either. It's your biasness that doesn't allow you to see the facts or accept them. WTH does the race of the people of that site have to do with anything? Wanting legal immigration reduced for the sensible reasons that they stated does not make them anti-immigration either.
I've already addressed the agricultural industry. There are unlimited visas for legal foreign workers. It's not a career job for Americans and is only seasonal work. Many Americans don't live in rural areas either. So why repeat yourself? Construction used to pay a liveable wage it doesn't anymore since illegal aliens along with their greedy employers reduced those wages. Just name one job sans crop picking that Americans aren't willing to do for a fair wage and who do you think were doing them before millions of cheap illegals flooded our border? Go ahead lie to yourself! You're the one who is spouting anti-American nonsense in here and I don't knowingly support these greedy employers or their illegal hires.
Now why don't we get back on topic which is discussing multi-culterism and diversity. It has nothing to do with the issue of illegal immigration!!
Of course it makes a difference! You're argument was that illegal immigration costs us billions. You didn't say legal immigration. You said illegal. Then you present an article from a biased source and claim it as fact. If I sourced an article from La Raza that stated that on a cost-benefit basis, the U.S. earns more than it spends on illegal immigration, you would say I'm biased right?
What bias do I have? Of course I'd rather Americans work than migrants because Americans pay more taxes which in turn pay for roads, healthcare, and social security.
Oh so because sharecropping isn't a career path...is only a season job that Americans shouldn't work those jobs? Should my tax dollars pay for someone who's unwilling to move to a rural community where when farmers are crying out for help? Sure! Let's get those brown people across the border to do the dirty work while we work in our white shirts and blue slacks in air-conditioned offices.
you say: Construction used to pay a liveable wage it doesn't anymore since illegal aliens along with their greedy employers reduced those wages. Just name one job sans crop picking that Americans aren't willing to do for a fair wage and who do you think were doing them before millions of cheap illegals flooded our border?
So undocumented workers just strolled over and asked an employer to pay them pennies on the dollar? You can't blame undocumented workers for wage depression. If an employer can pay me $3/hr, he'll do it. It's how business and markets work. How else you think the real estate market is out of control? Because there are people who will pay $1M for a 400sq ft studio in NYC.
So let's define Americans for a moment...because prior to undocumented workers crossing the Mexican border, African-Americans held many of the cooking and cleaning jobs; not so sure about construction. You think they were paid fair wages? Absolutely not!
Americans are not willing to work as porters, cooks, dishwashers, cleaners in hospitality. How do I know? I see it all the time in any city I go and so do you.
I'll be happy to return to multiculturalism...we've made our points!
It's not about that. It's about immigrants who won't assimilate into our society because too many have been allowed in both legally and illegally in a relatively short time. In fact liberals encourage them not to assimilate in so many ways. I don't know of many places today where that isn't a problem anymore.
Not denying the issue you point out about illegal immigration or unassimilated immigrants... but the title of this is just "multiculturalism and diversity" so why are you only focused on illegal diversity versus the legitimate kind? In my corporate company, we have a fair amount of diversity. Pretty sure none are illegal or "unassimilated" - they all speak English just fine and I don't remember the last time someone yelled a racist slur randomly so no division as far as I can see. This is what I was thinking about when I read the title of this thread.
Off topic I suppose however the rap goes on & on for pages. While I can agree with many of your assertions, American people have been brainwashed with a particular ideological slant for literally decades, it sounds something like this:
It's a disconnect when it comes to problem-solving or trouble-shooting or solution-providing.
Agreed. I'll take your advice and move back on topic. Cheers!!!!!
You keep talking but I bet there are jobs these people do that you are not willing to do and you are likely not going to encourage any of your relatives to do those jobs either. how many people you know will pick grapes or even pick apples, oranges and other fruits, and certainly not many will pick the variety of vegetables we all love to eat...or clean the hotel rooms that we take delight in knowing its clean when we get there and ask yourself how many people you know would shell and de-vein shrimp all day etc...or the many jobs that "people" do.
We should not be so quick to down play the value of Any Job, and certainly not the vast variety of jobs that exist, because we have the society and environments we have because "people" do those jobs, we have the conveniences and luxuries we enjoy because "people" do those jobs.
China has well over a BILLION PEOPLE but they have a vast pool of migrant and immigrant workers, both legal and illegal and they know what the deal is, and the deal it, they see an overall benefit within it.
How many American's do you know who will go out and "cut cabbage" or "cut lettuce", most would not make it 45 minutes, they'd be complaining about Carpal Tunnel, skin rashes, complaining about what the sun will do to their skin, and for someone to tell American to get up at 3am and be in the field by 4am... go out and see how many you can get to sign up, and be sure to tell them what the days pay rate is. Not only will they likely give you a piece of their mind, they may even offer to give you more if you don't quickly get out of their presence.
The average American Family can't even get their own kids to wash the family car, and if half the family is not out cleaning the yard like its a picnic, they are not going to go do it if they see it in the context of the work that it is.
I watched the young Mexican guys climb the tree's all the way up to the skinny part at the top, and use those chain saws like seasoned professionals, Its not likely one is going to get American to even go up that high even if one has a cherry picker that could reach that height. then when they finish, they come down, and cut up the wood and stack it neatly and if the resident does not want it, they come back within the weak or another crew comes and pick up the wood. Actually people complained because the wood sat there for two or three days.
Even now, when Lawn Crews come if they are Mexican, they cut the grass, clean the flower beds and trim the shrubbery, the other crews come, cut the grass, use the weed-eater a bit, and they want their money and they are gone.
Go to an auto body shop and see who is there, sanding those vehicle or doing the had rubbed finish... one thing one is likely not to see in America is a young Asian kid cutting someone grass or doing any kind of manual labor, they are not going to rush out trying to work at McDonald's during the summer or after school, these jobs are often filled with working poor black kids, working poor white kids, senior citizens who's money has ran low and did not meet with inflation, and in some cities these jobs are dominated by Mexican people or other Latin people.
America is not these "Made for TV" Lifetime Movie Imagery, Those shows are about well to do suburbia, and generally everyone banging the others mate, or scamming and plotting to kill someone or something, and they are in Pristine communities. The Sit Com are just another take on the "doing well" segment of society who see's everything as Pun and Fun and sexual innuendos and nobody is doing any real work. they promote fad imagery and the life of ease with not plans for anything, because its evidently already laid out for them.
Who do you think keeps the grass cut along the Freeways, and keep the manicured streets in the nice parts of the city.. it certainly is not the people who live there, and it is not their kids and maybe not even their distant cousin. It is the working poor, and if the cities tried to pay them a living wage, the same people who want this well kept area would be the first one to complain. Let the Garbage Man not show up within a certain time frame, these are the same people who call the city and complain, but if they spoke of giving these hard working people a raise, again it will be the same people in the same communities that want everything on time every time, who will raise hell and push their council member to fight like hell against any increase in pay for these workers.
People don't want to face the Reality and Truth, because America has never been big on Truth in the General Community Mentality of the Media Promoted Imagery of Society. But they are quick to denigrate the people in these levels of life and want to strip and take away any provision or benefit that might make their lives a bit better.
If every working poor illegal and every working poor black person simply decided not to go to work for a week... all the people who complain about blacks and illegals, will be screaming their heads off, talking about "what happen in America" because they can't get the convenience they are so accustomed to. But these same people love to go to the Grocery Store and see those shiny polished apples, and waxed cucumbers, and the freshly wrapped heads of lettuce, but they have so little respect for what it takes to get it there and the people who's lives struggle with low pay and hardships... and if the people save their money and try to have a car they can appreciate or dress it up, because they can't qualify for a house or a the marquee model, and if they try to buy some clothes that make them feel a part of something, they are criticized and made fun of.
If one went to some of these people homes or communities and they had a family get together, these people will go all out to try and give and share anything and everything they have with you... and do everything they can to try and make you feel welcomed. but that favor certainly is not going to be returned to them....
I know it for a fact because I had many Mexican, Asian, Filipino, Black, White and other ethnicities as friends, and they were the most gracious and wanted to introduce one to everyone in their family and they were proud to feel appreciated and accepted. Some of the people complaining should try it sometime... they might find out what real life is... I've worked jobs well below what my skill capability is, and some of the people were proud that I worked there and it made them feel better about their jobs... Then some would tell me what levels of jobs they had in their country before immigrating to America, and one would be amazed to learn that these people are not without character, dignity, honor and pride in whom they are and they are quite intelligent.
Go to some of the communities that some of these various ethnic people bought, they have the most well designed wrought iron fences, and how they fix their front and back yards and the decor and trinkets they have in their homes... they show the various crafts they either made or their friends made, they do everything they can to make their homes look as good as they can if they have the resources, but they do everything for their kids if they have the means to do so. I have seen communities that were simply beautify and these were everyday working people of various ethnicities.
American's can learn a lot about "what is family" from some of the same people they are quick to complain about. They may not have the luxury items with marquee names brands, but they are proud of what they earned and do have. They go a long way to look out for each other.
When people trip about Multiculturalism, most can't get beyond what they think is White American Style, and need to learn what many other ethnic groups of American's live as their style which is a mixture of much....
Geez, why do you keep repeating yourself over and over and constantly bringing up crop picking when that issue has already been discussed? Again, only 2% of illegal are picking crops. Most illegals are doing jobs that Americans were already doing for a fair wage before millions of cheap illegals flooded our border. There is no white American style so stick your race card back in your wallet. There is an "American" style, culture and language.
Bottom line you have nothing to justify illegal immigration into our country and your attitude is anti-American. I have no further use to debate with you any more. I'm glad they have an ignore feature in this forum. Buh, bye.
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.
Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
While I can agree with many of your assertions, American people have been brainwashed with a particular ideological slant for literally decades, it sounds something like this:
