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Old 06-27-2017, 02:38 PM
exm
 
3,713 posts, read 1,765,533 times
Reputation: 2836

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Quote:
Originally Posted by evilcart View Post
to be fair if the Republicans did not spend the last 6 years ensuring your rates went up instead of allowing Obama to fix ACA there would be no problem, but then the Rs would not have had the rally point they needed to get elected.

The Rs spent six years blocking Obama from adjusting, repairing the fledgling ACA. Nor did the republicans come up with solutions or fixes themselves.
Instead they worked day and night to make it fail, and missed no chance to attack it, to sue or do whatever they could to ensure their electorates would see ACA as a failed or broken promise.

And frankly it worked, the Rs threw America under the bus to get elected to office and it worked. Better yet they closed down government, blocked expanded medicaid, blocked funding and even changed the name of ACA in a number of states to hide its successes from those who received them.

thinks about that? the Republican invented ACA , Obama stole the idea and ran with it, so the Republicans hated him and did everything they could to break it. Now they are using this GOP created hardship as an excuse to defund public healthcare and give a huge tax break to the very wealthy.
So now it's the Republican's fault?! Maybe the Democrats should have involved the Republicans in 2009? Oh, I love the argument that the DNC "tried". They didn't. Republicans were invited initially, but not a single one of their suggestions was ever considered. There are some great articles how Pelosi and Reid handles Congress after Obama's elections.

It's absolutely hysterical you're blaming the GOP for a bill passed without a single GOP vote.

Quote:
Originally Posted by evilcart View Post
As to the EU, sorry buddy i have a solid 20 years in the EU, i know two healthcare systems very well and one in passing. They are very strong , very cheap and if you are middle class and european most nations have systems to allow you to pay a little more and get much faster service and nicer rooms too. I know because i did it. And most of my middle class friends , family etc did it too. But yes the poor in the EU may sometimes wait longer, and may even lose out if they are not proactive. But they are covered and every single EU nation has much cheaper coverage than the USA and you KNOW that is 100% true. your bang for the buck in the EU is vastly better than the USA. VASTLY.

And remember in the EU the systems that are not working very well are not working because their government are choosing not to fully fund them. Not because the system is broken, and those underfunded systems would still be much cheaper if fully funded. the EU has a funding issue not a structural issue, i think you already knew that though...
Let me give you a real-life example (I lived the first 30 years of my lives in The Netherlands).

  • Let's say your stomach has been bothering you, and you can't pinpoint the pain
  • You have to go to your primary care physician first, so you call to make an appointment.
  • PCPs are overwhelmed so you'll have to wait 4-6 weeks for your appointment
  • You go in, and the PCP has 10 minutes at most to spend with you. If the PCP deems it's nothing serious, he'll send you back home. That's it. If you're lucky and get a referral, you'll need to go to the referral he'll give you. No options.
  • You call the referral doctor, have to wait another 4-6 weeks
  • Let's say for argument sake you need non-critical surgery you'll be placed on a waiting list which is months. If you're a rich European you'll go to the .... United States for surgery.
Also:

  • Yearly physicals? Blood tests? As a fair skinned person, Dermatology checkups? Doesn't exist.
  • A friend of mine in NL fell down and he was in significant pain. The ER refused to look at him and they booked an emergency PCP appointment for the next day. The PCP determined he broke his wrist and send him to the hospital. The hospital only had availability the next day. So he had to walk around with a broken wrist for 2 days
Some examples of great European care. Is that what you want in the United States?
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Old 06-27-2017, 02:39 PM
 
9,837 posts, read 4,619,707 times
Reputation: 7292
Quote:
Originally Posted by redwood66 View Post
Do not assume anything about me because I am fully for helping the poor and truly unable.

And please tell the bolded to people who currently have Obamacare. Other nations may have ok healthcare but why do those that can afford it come here for services instead?

The fact is I do not trust our government to handle anything of this magnitude properly or efficiently.
MORE FAKE INFORMATION FROM TRUMPERS


the idea that well funded germans are traveling to the USA for treatment is bs. upscale services in the EU, hell the whole globe are just as good as our top services. there are medical travellers in both directions all the time. that is the normal state of affairs. However there are lots of poorly informed Americans who think we have the biggest building, longest bridge, biggest dam, biggest democracy, most democratic nation , best biggest everything. the truth is tech and skill is everywhere in every field. And medical leads we have are very narrow and maintained at massive cost to the public.

You are a victim of propaganda if you believe the EU lacks superb hospitals and services. Maybe you have confused Europe with Europa ?

there are a whole bunch of ways to grade hospitals and the USA has some of the best in the World, but the EU has some of the best in the world too. The EU hits the top of the charts as does asia too. The US is the world leader, but we are behind in some areas and ahead in others.



YEP, with so much money going into the pockets of hospitals we do have about 1/2 the top tech hospitals but that does not mean we have the top success rates or that we are the only game in town.

We do less with more than any other nation on earth. We get lousy value for the dollars spent.
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Old 06-27-2017, 02:44 PM
 
34,274 posts, read 19,312,630 times
Reputation: 17256
Quote:
Originally Posted by exm View Post
Republicans were invited initially, but not a single one of their suggestions was ever considered.
There are over 100 passed Republican amendments in the ACA. How do you not know this?
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Old 06-27-2017, 02:45 PM
 
7,520 posts, read 2,796,146 times
Reputation: 3940
Quote:
Originally Posted by evilcart View Post
MORE FAKE INFORMATION FROM TRUMPERS

There you go assuming. I did not vote for Trump. And you believe that the government will automatically turn all of that crap you just wrote around? Who is a victim of propaganda again? We do get lousy value for our dollars spent and most of that is because of the government.
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Old 06-27-2017, 02:48 PM
exm
 
3,713 posts, read 1,765,533 times
Reputation: 2836
Quote:
Originally Posted by evilcart View Post
the idea that well funded germans are traveling to the USA for treatment is bs. upscale services in the EU, hell the whole globe are just as good as our top services. there are medical travellers in both directions all the time. that is the normal state of affairs. However there are lots of poorly informed Americans who think we have the biggest building, longest bridge, biggest dam, biggest democracy, most democratic nation , best biggest everything. the truth is tech and skill is everywhere in every field. And medical leads we have are very narrow and maintained at massive cost to the public.
.
It's not bull****. It happens all the time with Europeans. Americans go abroad for lower costs (e.g. IVF treatment), Europeans go abroad for quicker access to care, and better quality care.

I removed the bold headlines, but I figured I know where you stand now.

Signed, an European expat.
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Old 06-27-2017, 02:50 PM
exm
 
3,713 posts, read 1,765,533 times
Reputation: 2836
Quote:
Originally Posted by greywar View Post
There are over 100 passed Republican amendments in the ACA. How do you not know this?
Fake. Source: Gutierrez says 'hundreds of Republican amendments' were a part of Obamacare | PolitiFact
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Old 06-27-2017, 02:51 PM
 
2,333 posts, read 1,483,061 times
Reputation: 922
Quote:
Originally Posted by exm View Post
It's not bull****. It happens all the time with Europeans. Americans go abroad for lower costs (e.g. IVF treatment), Europeans go abroad for quicker access to care, and better quality care.

I removed the bold headlines, but I figured I know where you stand now.

Signed, an European expat.
I think this is true... medical tourism happens both ways; just depends on the reason. I know people who come to the US from Europe and Asia for the most high-tech treatments and quick access (like you said), and people who go to Mexico or Asia for more routine treatments that are much lower cost. Plastic surgery, simple eye procedures like LASIK and dental work seem especially big.
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Old 06-27-2017, 03:04 PM
 
9,837 posts, read 4,619,707 times
Reputation: 7292
Quote:
Originally Posted by exm View Post
So now it's the Republican's fault?! Maybe the Democrats should have involved the Republicans in 2009? Oh, I love the argument that the DNC "tried". They didn't. Republicans were invited initially, but not a single one of their suggestions was ever considered. There are some great articles how Pelosi and Reid handles Congress after Obama's elections.
I will look at this part first. Maybe the Democrats should have involved the Republicans in 2009?


lets see.

note the bolded bit. it is a historical fact that the REPUBLICANS got to make 161 amendments to the final ACA bill cira 2009. If you want to argue and pretend the number is fake, fine lets say 61 I will drop 100 off the real number to preempt any rubbish over what the number is.

Now i have 100% PROVED you are completely wrong ref including the Republicans in ACA. Your side helped craft it and then were afriad to go on record as voting for it. Yourside were allowed real input .

Will you admit it? Nope never you will either pretend not to have seen this post or you will try to shift to some tangential argument and pretend you meant something else. My guess is you will pretend not to have seen this post.

Quote:
Almost no one is noting the extraordinary influence Republicans had on the healthcare reform bill crafted by the Senate, as it made its way through the committee process last year. The bill approved by Sen. Christopher Dodd’s Health, Education, Labor and Pensions committee, for instance, included 161 amendments authored by Republicans. Only 49 Republican amendments were rejected out of 210 considered. Yet the bill got zero Republican votes when it passed out of the committee.
Fact-checking the GOP on healthcare reform - Salon.com

THIS QUOTE SHOWS EVEN THE GOP SAY THEY GOT 29 substantive changes made to ACA. So i ask you Do you admit you have been lied to by your own GOP party?

Quote:
Only 197 amendments were passed in the end—36 from Democrats and 161 from Republicans. And of those 161 GOP amendments, Senate Republicans classify 29 as substantive and 132 as technical.
Slate examines the GOP amendments to a Senate health care bill.
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Old 06-27-2017, 03:07 PM
 
11,523 posts, read 14,611,972 times
Reputation: 16821
Quote:
Originally Posted by greywar View Post
Republican Health Bill Updated To Avoid Insurance Market 'Death Spiral' : NPR

Yup. Lose your job, or have something that causes you to not be able to pay for insurance for a couple months? No insurance for you for 6 months.

I understand the desired purpose, however the results will kill people. Sick people often have a hard time keeping their employment. This change will kill many of those.
I thought Trumpcare was gonna be "great," "really great." I thought he wasn't gonna cut Medicaid, too.
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Old 06-27-2017, 03:09 PM
 
7,520 posts, read 2,796,146 times
Reputation: 3940
Slowing out of control increases is not cutting.
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