What Would Taxes Look Like With Single Payer? (employment, salaries, health care system)

[Motion]

What would change with taxes if the U.S adopted a single payer health care system?

Interesting read:

Single-payer healthcare is popular with Californians

[PCALMike]

A tax payer funded health care system saves ordinary people thousands of dollars over a for-profit rip off health care system like we have in America. Thats one of the reasons why ever single developed country in the world has it. People pool their resources and the people with the broadest shoulders who are able to pay more, pay more into such a tax funded system. Its a progressive policy, but sadly, the ruling donor class of big insurance, big pharma and their Wall Street financiers have enormous power to shape public opinion in America. While trade unions are absolutely devastated after 40 years of relentless attacks from the ruling class. And plenty of working stiffs celebrate this and even carry the water for the donors. Its crazy.

[workingclasshero]

A Cali study figured out it would cost over 400 billion each year for singlepayer in cali (more than double their current budget)

singlepayer is dead in cali

Cali cant afford singplayer

Vermont already figured that out as they canned their "greenmountain care" singplepayer plan


at the federal level true singplayer would cost nearly 5.9 trillion a year....while 'not so' singlepayer (quasi-payer ) medicare for all (a 75/25 INSURANCE) would cost over 3 trillion a year to the taxpayers


now speaking of taxpayers...

according to the IRS, there are 'about' 150 million FILERS, with only about 50% being actual tax payers...so there are only about 75 million taxpayers

so (we will use even numbers) 6 trillion divided by 75 million....'about' 80k average to each taxpayer
...........................................3 trillion divided by 75 million....'about' 40k average to each taxpayer

can you (if you are one of the 75 million taxpayers) afford a 40k tax bill, on top of all the taxes you already pay......

[CCbaxter]

Cost controls are mandatory with any single payer plan. The medical, pharm, and insurance lobby will keep on charging $50 for a box of Kleenex in your hospital room and nothing will change.

[PCALMike]

Originally Posted by workingclasshero

A Cali study figured out it would cost over 400 billion each year for singlepayer in cali (more than double their current budget)

singlepayer is dead in cali

Cali cant afford singplayer

Vermont already figured that out as they canned their "greenmountain care" singplepayer plan


at the federal level true singplayer would cost nearly 5.9 trillion a year....while 'not so' singlepayer (quasi-payer ) medicare for all (a 75/25 INSURANCE) would cost over 3 trillion a year to the taxpayers


now speaking of taxpayers...

according to the IRS, there are 'about' 150 million FILERS, with only about 50% being actual tax payers...so there are only about 75 million taxpayers

so (we will use even numbers) 6 trillion divided by 75 million....'about' 80k average to each taxpayer
...........................................3 trillion divided by 75 million....'about' 40k average to each taxpayer

can you (if you are one of the 75 million taxpayers) afford a 40k tax bill, on top of all the taxes you already pay......

So you want to pay taxes for both Medicare, Medicaid, VA and private insurance for all government employees, incl fire fighters, police etc, and also pay taxes for a single payer system for 325 million Americans on top of that, so huge numbers of people will be covered twice?

The typical cost for a Medicare-for-all system in the rest of the developed world is $3500 per person per year in taxes. Americans pay $10 000 per person per year for the current system...Yet here you are, talking about $80 000 per year on top of all other taxes.

[phma]

More taxes.

More government control.

Less freedoms. Less choice.

More people dying from longer wait times.

Increasing cost to balloon the debit.

Dr.'s making less and eventually becoming gov. employees.

This could all be offset when we start burying the living and raising the dead. Small change in thinking.

[Fiyero]

It would actually reduce costs for your average American. Americans pay the highest per year in medical expenses in the developed world. So while you think "hey my taxes are lower than Europe, so we're better!", you're actually paying much more overall than other countries do.

Lower taxes aren't actually a good thing when you have to pay for everything out of pocket, which makes you actually spend more overall than those in higher taxed countries.

There is a reason that most places like Canada, Australia, New Zealand, and Western Europe have superior quality of life to Americans.

[PCALMike]

Originally Posted by phma

More taxes.

More government control.

Less freedoms. Less choice.

More people dying from longer wait times.

Increasing cost to balloon the debit.

Dr.'s making less and eventually becoming gov. employees.

This could all be offset when we start burying the living and raising the dead. Small change in thinking.

Dont worry. Trump is busy handing over the health care to Wall Street and big insurance so you once again have lots of freedoms to die because you cant afford health care and medicine.

[sanspeur]

What will taxes look like with single payer? Not a lot different.

U.S. federal income tax brackets range from 10% to 35% for individuals. On the Canadian side, the range is 15% to 29%. In the U.S., the lowest tax bracket bumps to 15% at $8,500 and to 25% at $34,501. The bottom Canadian bracket stays at 15% until $41,544. Do Canadians Really Pay More Taxes Than Americans?

[workingclasshero]

Originally Posted by PCALMike

So you want to pay taxes for both Medicare, Medicaid, VA and private insurance for all government employees, incl fire fighters, police etc, and also pay taxes for a single payer system for 325 million Americans on top of that, so huge numbers of people will be covered twice?

The typical cost for a Medicare-for-all system in the rest of the developed world is $3500 per person per year in taxes. Americans pay $10 000 per person per year for the current system...Yet here you are, talking about $80 000 per year on top of all other taxes.

I am talking about singlepayer, which eliminates the others

medicare and Medicaid is over a trillion just at the federal level currently
let's look at the increases medicare has cost:
in 2000 medicare was 216 billion
in 2008 medicare was 456 billion
in 2016 medicare was 691 billion

Medicaid:
2000.....117 billion
2008.....201 billion
2016.....368 billion

what is even more interesting is what the predicted outlays will be in the future
in 2016 medicare was 691 billion
prediction for 2020....963 billion
prediction for 2026....1.383 Trillion

actual Medicaid 2016.....368 billion
prediction for 2020....450 billion
prediction for 2026....616 Billion

so the prediction is medicare and Medicaid is expected to be over 2 trillion dollars is less than 9 years
that's just the GOVERNMENT costs of Medicare and Medicaid... and medicare/Medicaid covers less than 1/4 of our population.. on top of that you have the VA..and then what the PEOPLE are already paying for private insurance


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singlepayer is a non-starter, until its proponents answer the questions that most are asking about it

even most republicans would be for a singlepayer

if the liberals would only answer two questions

we want real care....quality care...not care like the Dept of health horror clinics..so will you guarantee the quality of care

and

HOW are you going to pay for it

two questions the liberals avoid like the plague

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singlepayer is NOT sustainable at any level when you are talking about 320 million patients, and less than 100 million taxpayers


they (the government) cant lower much..the best the government could do is lower some prescription medicines




how are you going to control the cost of medical equipment(mri or x-ray machines, etc)??????most xray machine are made in Denmark



how are you going to control the cost of the rising electric bills the doctors/hospitals are facing????



how are you going to control the rising property tax/rent/mortgage that doctors face?????



how are you going to control the cost of supplies(gauze, plaster, silk, rubber, polystyrene( a oil product)?????especially some supplies that aren't even American



how are you going to control the cost of people salaries???? a maximum wage???



how they are going to control the employment costs for Doctors, nurses, technicians, hospital food operators, hospital linen cleaning service, custodial services, medical transcribers........are you going to 'nationalize' every profession that is even remotely connected to medicine????



how are they going to control malpractice INSURANCE COSTS?????



things are expensive

for example the average hospital uses a lot of electricity...about 500,000 a month...that's over 6 million dollars in electric costs yearly.....you are not going to cut that piece of overhead

when you go to the local doctor and pay him/her 100..its not 100 dollars going into his pocket...there are lots of other COSTS


they have lots of overhead costs:
rent/lease/mortgage
property taxes
electric costs
equipment costs(and many pieces of equipment are not even made here)
cleaning costs
supply costs
personnel costs
etc


singlepayer will not control these costs




medicine (like anyother SERVICE) costs money,,(,money that our government doesn't have)




want to know A BIG REASON why its lower in those other countries.??? salaries.....a nurse in France(actually most of europe) makes about 1500-1800 a month(in us dollars)..that's 18-20000 a year.....meanwhile according to payscale.com the average Rn makes 40-78,000 in the usa


so what is it that singlepayer supporters 'think' or 'believe' we will be able to negotiate ??? medicines maybe....salaries not likely...other supply costs not likely.....property taxes and overhead...not a chance