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Old 07-02-2017, 12:05 PM
 
29,531 posts, read 9,700,562 times
Reputation: 3466

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Quote:
Originally Posted by mahasn sawresho View Post
True peace is on both sides
Not one-sided
If the Palestinians, as they now know, want true peace
They must do so without consulting from other countries such as Saudi Arabia or Pakistan

The Israelis are also doing this without consulting America or Britain
Because peace is for generations to come from both sides
Israel has no ideological problems to hate Arabs or Muslims
Jewish teachings in essence are the ten commandments that Moses brought
These commandments are valid in all times and in every place, and also in every people that believes in peace
On the Palestinian side, too, he must rid himself of the ideology of hatred to the Jews
And to declare that he does not recognize those texts that call for hatred of Jews
If the Palestinian does not follow this direction, the conflict will continue
Israel will have a strong right to respond
For those who want to destroy Israel must bear the consequences of their desires
True, "peace is on both sides."

Not true, either side cannot consult with whomever they wish, as they deem appropriate or necessary.

Not true, any precondition need be met to discuss a peace accord.

Enemies cannot be expected to meet such/any preconditions, but they can be expected to negotiate a peace regardless their hatred of one another.

This simple truth is what both sides need to accept, especially the Israelis, but the Israelis insist on all manner of precondition(s), because peace doesn't really suit the Zionist agenda. The Zionists don't want to give up what they must to achieve peace, a viable chance for the Palestinians to be free and prosperous. Simple as that.

 
Old 07-02-2017, 12:08 PM
 
29,531 posts, read 9,700,562 times
Reputation: 3466
Quote:
Originally Posted by jonesg View Post
People have the freedom to self identify as they wish.

If anyone is put off by a Mr Cohen, born in Brooklyn yet identifying his nationality as Jewish with an American passport, they are saying more about themselves than I care to know.

As for the chosen, anything that speaks of separation is not from God.
The jews chose God, not the other way around.
I would add... they chose well.
Anyone who claims to know what is or is not from God, I would add, is not as knowing as they think...
 
Old 07-02-2017, 12:11 PM
 
29,531 posts, read 9,700,562 times
Reputation: 3466
Quote:
Originally Posted by jonesg View Post
People have the freedom to self identify as they wish.

If anyone is put off by a Mr Cohen, born in Brooklyn yet identifying his nationality as Jewish with an American passport, they are saying more about themselves than I care to know.

As for the chosen, anything that speaks of separation is not from God.
The jews chose God, not the other way around.
I would add... they chose well.
Yes, of course people have the freedom to self identify as they wish, and others will judge accordingly. Review all manner of how people self identify as I noted before.

What comes of the peace and/or tension as a result of how people self identify (and act) deserves reflection if you ask me. That's all.
 
Old 07-02-2017, 12:15 PM
 
29,531 posts, read 9,700,562 times
Reputation: 3466
Quote:
Originally Posted by FirebirdCamaro1220 View Post
The bolded is a canard. There is the third option, which is the two state solution.
Yes, thank you, and/or whatever other working arrangement can be agreed upon to give both the Israelis and Palestinians a better path toward peace and prosperity, at least for their kids. I think too many of the adults, the leaders, are a lost cause. New leadership is needed, and sadly, perhaps another generation or two before the senseless killing of innocents and injustices come to an end...
 
Old 07-02-2017, 12:31 PM
 
Location: The Ranch in Olam Haba
23,707 posts, read 30,730,816 times
Reputation: 9985
Quote:
Originally Posted by AminWi View Post
So, the reason it is easy to claim that Jordanian and Palestinian culture is the same is that the sheer number of Palestinians in the country after the war caused the cultures to blend and change. Before the war, the population of Amman was around 300,000. After, it was double that, with the increase coming mostly from Palestinian refugees. Most Jordanians were Bedouins and most Palestinians were educated urban dwellers. There is a distinct difference in the dialects spoken by Palestinian Arabs and the Bedouin of Jordan even today, although this difference isn't as noticeable among city dwellers today. There are also distinct styles of embroidery in the traditional clothes, and different national dishes. For example, mensef is a Jordanian dish, while kunaffa and msakhan are Palestinian.
This link clears the air:

IN JORDAN, LONGSTANDING SPLIT - NYTimes.com
 
Old 07-02-2017, 12:42 PM
 
Location: The Ranch in Olam Haba
23,707 posts, read 30,730,816 times
Reputation: 9985
Quote:
Originally Posted by LearnMe View Post
True, "peace is on both sides."

Not true, either side cannot consult with whomever they wish, as they deem appropriate or necessary.

Not true, any precondition need be met to discuss a peace accord.

Enemies cannot be expected to meet such/any preconditions, but they can be expected to negotiate a peace regardless their hatred of one another.

This simple truth is what both sides need to accept, especially the Israelis, but the Israelis insist on all manner of precondition(s), because peace doesn't really suit the Zionist agenda. The Zionists don't want to give up what they must to achieve peace, a viable chance for the Palestinians to be free and prosperous. Simple as that.
Israel has only set one precondition and it is that there be no preconditions? And you have a problem with this??? What other preconditions has Israel requested for face-to-face negotiations?
 
Old 07-02-2017, 12:50 PM
 
Location: The Ranch in Olam Haba
23,707 posts, read 30,730,816 times
Reputation: 9985
Quote:
Originally Posted by LearnMe View Post
Yes, thank you, and/or whatever other working arrangement can be agreed upon to give both the Israelis and Palestinians a better path toward peace and prosperity, at least for their kids. I think too many of the adults, the leaders, are a lost cause. New leadership is needed, and sadly, perhaps another generation or two before the senseless killing of innocents and injustices come to an end...
Israel has had multiple administrations that have been in numerous locations between Left and Right. The Palestinians have been in the same administration under the PLO in leadership positions for 50 years now. Israel has tried to meet certain preconditions as precursors to peace talks, it’s never worked well. The Palestinians, in turn, always up their demands. So if anyone needs a change, it's the Palestinian people.
 
Old 07-02-2017, 01:57 PM
 
Location: Wisconsin
1,261 posts, read 949,869 times
Reputation: 1468
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pruzhany View Post
Not really. It is framing the conversation in terms that make sense to Westerners. If you sit down with Jordanians and Palestinians and ask them about their identity, you'll find they don't frame the conversation in the same way at all. They think of their identity in terms of family and where their families lived much more than in terms of nation.
 
Old 07-02-2017, 02:15 PM
 
Location: The Ranch in Olam Haba
23,707 posts, read 30,730,816 times
Reputation: 9985
Quote:
Originally Posted by AminWi View Post
Not really. It is framing the conversation in terms that make sense to Westerners. If you sit down with Jordanians and Palestinians and ask them about their identity, you'll find they don't frame the conversation in the same way at all. They think of their identity in terms of family and where their families lived much more than in terms of nation.
If they have no clue of which Sanjak their family came from, then their not from the Levant at all. I know which Sanjak my family came from yet many Jordanians and Palestinians I've spoken to over the decades had no clue what a Sanjak even was.
 
Old 07-02-2017, 03:28 PM
 
Location: Boston,MA
127 posts, read 146,967 times
Reputation: 104
Quote:
Originally Posted by LearnMe View Post
In contrast, someone like me for example, of Italian/Catholic descent, I refer to myself as an American, regardless all the rest that is my ethnic, racial, cultural or religious background. Jews, it seems, are Jews first and foremost over everything else.
If only your interpretation were the case today the American Jewish community would be far more unified and something like BDS would have never the light of day. The bottom line is we live in an era where a solid majority of non-Orthodox Jews are intermarrying, many American Jews maintain an at best cultural connection to their Jewishness, and maybe attend Shul on High Holidays if at all. We also live in an era where Reform Rabbis, JCRC & Federation heads will happily lead rallies for Syrian refugees, defend Linda Sarsour, defend radical groups like SJP, JVP, JStreet, and IfNotNow but no longer care about Jewish interests like students on college campuses having mezuzahs pulled off their dorm room door, being told they can't objectively serve on student government because they are involved with Jewish groups, as examples.

I always point out to people that unlike other ethnic groups our indentity emphasizes AMERICA first, unlike many other ethic groups such as your own. Historically many Jews have found comfort and enjoyed the cohesion our closely knit community provides, which is no small feat for a people who have faced millennias of persecution and oppression.

Again if you turn to any credible study conducted by a myriad of academic or public Jewish life organization sources you would see that if anything the interest, connection and cohesion of our community in the United States among non-Orthodox is troubling with no sign of things getting better.
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