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Not to sound cruel, but I would argue subjecting a baby to a life with that kind of genetic damage is cruel, and the doctors are right. They can always get pregnant and try for another baby, hopefully a healthy one, but keeping people on long term life support gets really expensive, really fast. It's like spending millions of dollars to keep a cancer patient who is most certainly going to die, alive another 3 months. There comes a point where there's diminishing returns on the amount of money spent to provide medical care. Money doesn't grow on trees and these are tough decisions, but they have to be made if we expect to keep health care affordable while providing single payer healthcare. There's no way single payer remains viable if everyone who's in a coma, braindead, or otherwise incapacitated or has genetic damage is kept alive via millions of dollars in medical care for that person throughout the course of their life.
I posted this for a reason. We just can't have it both ways. If we go the socialized route for the majority of people it will probably work out and there will be cases like these. If we continue on the way we are, only people like my wife and I that pay our $800 a month in premium will get coverage while those of us less fortunate will suffer.
The common denominator of all this though, and it is one that our politicians aren't focusing on , like Craigiri said, although I'll add "crony" capitalist health care is a big fail. I'm all for capitalism but what we are seeing from the insurance companies and big pharma is more like extortion.
How do we get a handle on it ? Our politicians fighting about it in DC aren't ... it certainly doesn't seem like it.
Just as with gay marriage, pot decrim and much else, when the CITIZENS are stalwart in their desires and let it be known through their opinions (and $$ for orgs working for change - and showing up at protests - and calling their reps), that is when things may change.
Our medicine is a fail just like our military adventures. Both are situations where FEAR is/was used for the proponents to extract too much money and other things (Patriot Act, etc.) from us.
17% approval of the new TrumpCare is a good start. Let's get to 60% plus approval for single payer health systems and then- after that - use the quantity discount to force the medical profiteers to become more efficient.
In terms of reality, the way I see this happening now is that MA and CA and perhaps some other states will adopt single payer...and, over time, other people will look and realize "Why is my state suffering" - then minds will change, then politics will change.
The GOP is our enemy in this because they want tax cuts - not good medical care. BUT, if they were truly smart and wanted to MAGA, what they would do would be to accept the ACA, put in some improvements and give states a choice (and help with) those that desire to go to single payer.
Believe me, it would be like a tidal wave then...
We (progressives) have been right on this all along - from the 1970's until today. It's really a matter of when others catch up in their thinking AND when Congress and the POTUS grow enough courage to face down their corporate masters.
If you were ever to have heard of one the architects of Obamacare Dr. Ezekiel Emanuel ( an oncologist and "bioethicist"), you would know this would become the norm if they have their way. Back before he got blow back about death panels, he is a vocal advocate of allowing people beyond their productive years to die, rather than be a drain on society.
Heck he said so about his father who is a retired MD and enjoying his retirement playing a lot of golf. He claims to think the same way about himself when that time comes. Rest assured others who think th same way, exclude themselves and their loved ones, since it will only be for the little people.
Ezekiel (brother of dead fish Rahm) is a fanatic who thinks he knows what is best for society, yet even he wouldn't have the guts to say inner city minority drug dealers who run up huge trauma costs, should not be saved.
Why?
Simple, because he'd be afraid of his fellow liberals using PC to attack him as racist. Yet he has no problem pontificating about letting your grandfather die despite the fact he contributed to society by serving his country in war, and working the rest of his life as a taxpayer.
But I digress.
Rest assured leftist socialist/communists want to do what they feel is right for the collective good. Yet when faced with a personal family crisis, the rules will not apply to them and theirs.
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What does "letting someone die" mean?
Does it mean not providing any treatment at all or does it mean refusing to continue to extend one's life beyond meaningful recovery?
As an oncologist, I would imagine that the good doctor has seen his share of patients who, as a result of their illnesses, were never going to recover despite all of the best intentions and millions of dollars in treatment.
As was pointed out in post #25, billions of dollars are spent every year on end-of-life care. In many cases, that care does nothing but prolong the inevitable.
Should someone, like the grandfather noted above, be subjected to an extended period of feeding tubes and breathing tubes and bed sores just so that his relatives can say they didn't "let him die?"
Is that humane?
Is it respectful to his life of service?
And when you pay insurance premiums you are also paying for people who make more claims on their policies more than you do/will.
Do people really not understand this?
Good point...it is just like our vehicle insurance. In the state of MI it is a "no fault" state so our premiums are quite high. And yes, I never really thought of it that way.
Location: Live:Downtown Phoenix, AZ/Work:Greater Los Angeles, CA
27,606 posts, read 14,457,371 times
Reputation: 9169
Quote:
Originally Posted by marino760
I don't care what you call it. It's far better than to pay an absurd amount to an insurance company every month, sometimes as much as your house payment or more and then have to go to a doctor of their choice and they approve of and has a 3 week waiting list to get in and see. If you're lucky enough to see a doctor and don't get sicker and die first, you have to pay a huge deductible and co-pay.
How did our health care system turn into this horrible mess?
It's funny that you seem to be right wing on everything except this issue, where you and I are in total agreement. We need single payer in this country
Just as with gay marriage, pot decrim and much else, when the CITIZENS are stalwart in their desires and let it be known through their opinions (and $$ for orgs working for change - and showing up at protests - and calling their reps), that is when things may change.
Our medicine is a fail just like our military adventures. Both are situations where FEAR is/was used for the proponents to extract too much money and other things (Patriot Act, etc.) from us.
17% approval of the new TrumpCare is a good start. Let's get to 60% plus approval for single payer health systems and then- after that - use the quantity discount to force the medical profiteers to become more efficient.
In terms of reality, the way I see this happening now is that MA and CA and perhaps some other states will adopt single payer...and, over time, other people will look and realize "Why is my state suffering" - then minds will change, then politics will change.
The GOP is our enemy in this because they want tax cuts - not good medical care. BUT, if they were truly smart and wanted to MAGA, what they would do would be to accept the ACA, put in some improvements and give states a choice (and help with) those that desire to go to single payer.
Believe me, it would be like a tidal wave then...
We (progressives) have been right on this all along - from the 1970's until today. It's really a matter of when others catch up in their thinking AND when Congress and the POTUS grow enough courage to face down their corporate masters.
Wasn't single payer a fail in Vermont ? If anything you would think that a pretty blue state like that would make it work.
I don't care what you call it. It's far better than to pay an absurd amount to an insurance company every month, sometimes as much as your house payment or more and then have to go to a doctor of their choice and they approve of and has a 3 week waiting list to get in and see. If you're lucky enough to see a doctor and don't get sicker and die first, you have to pay a huge deductible and co-pay. How did our health care system turn into this horrible mess?
Great question.
All thru my career (I'm 48 now) I've never had to worry about health care like I've had to since roughly around '07. I would get a job pick out my plan from my company provided plan and they would deduct a certain amount per check. Even my contract jobs were like that, then things started changing around '07. Now it has been a political talking point ever since it seems.
It sounds like the baby is already dead with no chance of recovery. I would like to hear if the experimental treatment is legitimate but, generally, if the parents want to keep him alive then they should pay for it.
Location: Live:Downtown Phoenix, AZ/Work:Greater Los Angeles, CA
27,606 posts, read 14,457,371 times
Reputation: 9169
Quote:
Originally Posted by MJJersey
It sounds like the baby is already dead with no chance of recovery. I would like to hear if the experimental treatment is legitimate but, generally, if the parents want to keep him alive then they should pay for it.
And if the parents don't have the money? (Hint, the vast majority of families in this country don't have that kind of money)
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