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Old 07-02-2017, 07:28 AM
 
Location: Tulsa
2,230 posts, read 1,715,752 times
Reputation: 2434

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Quote:
Originally Posted by pennyone View Post
This is why this constant harping about "one china" by Beijing is a joke. It's now about breaking away and separatism, and the anti-secession law should kick in. Beijing is too weak when it comes to Taiwan. It worries about this and that, and the rest of the world uses the Taiwan issue to manipulate and beat Beijing. No one ever says maintaining ones territorial integrity is easy, so the bs about peaceful unification is also a joke that Beijing entertain to fool its own people. Either pay the price and keep your territory, or admit the eventual reality and let it go. Of course letting it go means the fall of the Beijing regime. Time to face the piper and see what you're made of, china. You can't hide behind semantics and words and spin forever. Either pay up, or shut up.
Who cares?

The status quo is fine.

 
Old 07-02-2017, 09:06 AM
 
Location: Honolulu
1,708 posts, read 1,145,168 times
Reputation: 1405
IMO US was under certain condition to agree to the "One China Principle" as dictated by Beijing to establish diplomatic relationship with PRC in 1979.

Nixon visited Beijing in 1972. It took seven years for US to establish relationship with China in 1979.
What had happened in these seven years? North Vietnam won the war in 1975 and Cam Ranh Bay was leased to the Soviet fleet. The entire Southeast Asia might face a domino effect which would fall into the Soviet sphere. Under such circumstance, Carter's National Security adviser Brzezinski urged Carter to expedite establishing relationship with PRC at the expense of severing tie with Taiwan. In fact, both US and China needed each other at that time to counter Soviet advance.

But now international geopolitics has completely undergone fundamental change.

Russia, though still perceived as an adversary, does not pose global challenge to US as USSR was. Vietnam is now a friend instead of a threat to US. Cam Ranh Bay may even be of potential use to US Seventh Fleet.

So when shared objective is gone, why would US still adhere to those unfavorable terms dictated by China in 1979 when diplomatic relationship was established?
 
Old 07-02-2017, 11:04 AM
 
Location: Tulsa
2,230 posts, read 1,715,752 times
Reputation: 2434
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ian_Lee View Post
IMO US was under certain condition to agree to the "One China Principle" as dictated by Beijing to establish diplomatic relationship with PRC in 1979.

Nixon visited Beijing in 1972. It took seven years for US to establish relationship with China in 1979.
What had happened in these seven years? North Vietnam won the war in 1975 and Cam Ranh Bay was leased to the Soviet fleet. The entire Southeast Asia might face a domino effect which would fall into the Soviet sphere. Under such circumstance, Carter's National Security adviser Brzezinski urged Carter to expedite establishing relationship with PRC at the expense of severing tie with Taiwan. In fact, both US and China needed each other at that time to counter Soviet advance.

But now international geopolitics has completely undergone fundamental change.

Russia, though still perceived as an adversary, does not pose global challenge to US as USSR was. Vietnam is now a friend instead of a threat to US. Cam Ranh Bay may even be of potential use to US Seventh Fleet.

So when shared objective is gone, why would US still adhere to those unfavorable terms dictated by China in 1979 when diplomatic relationship was established?
Because Trump made a great deal.

Your understanding of history is very unique, I'm totally impressed.

Nixon cut ties with ROC because ROC didn't represent China anymore after they lost the mainland, he couldn't pretend that ROC is the legitmiate government of China.

Unfavorable terms? I don't get it. Unfavorable for you? not the U.S.

With the status quo, the U.S can make money by selling Taiwan arms, the U.S can secure a better deal with China by playing the Taiwan card. This is the best scenario for the U.S. If Taiwan became an officially independent country, everybody could sell arms to Taiwan, and China wouldn't need to give in on trade in exchange for US support for its One China Principle.

The U.S will be the biggest loser if Taiwan declares independence.
 
Old 07-02-2017, 11:34 AM
 
Location: State of Transition
102,210 posts, read 107,883,295 times
Reputation: 116153
Quote:
Originally Posted by GoodHombre View Post
Not really.

Congressmen sometimes propose bills that they know won't pass, it has nothing to do with the President. During Obama administration or any administration, there were some congressmen that had close ties with Taiwan.

Trump played Taiwan card to secure a better deal with China on trade and investment. But Trump's tactics could backfire.

Trump has the conflict of interest everywhere. In fact, he doesn't need to restore US-Taiwan relationship to pre 79 level to operate hotels in Taiwan.

Interesting enough, Taiwan doesn't really want to go back to the 70s. Taiwan(ROC) claimed the mainland territory between 1949 and late 1970s. The original plan was to take back the mainland with the help of the U.S, after all, ROC means the Republic of China. In case you don't know, the Republic of China was the China in WW2, a U.S ally.

It doesn't take a rocket scientist to figure out how unrealistic the plan is. So, today Taiwan just wants to be an independent country. They don't want to represent China like they did in the pre-1979 era.
haha, thanks for reminding me! The KMT was crazy/obsessed back then. But from the US perspective, it was just a defense treaty, not an aggression treaty. But elements in Taiwan have gone to the opposite extreme now; a little to friendly toward the Mainland.

Nixon was advised by Ceausescu to open relations with China. Romania was an ally of China, in opposition to the USSR, and he met with Nixon in the White House, not long before Nixon announced his trip to China. Recognizing China sooner or later was inevitable.
 
Old 07-02-2017, 03:47 PM
 
5,792 posts, read 5,106,539 times
Reputation: 8008
Quote:
Originally Posted by GoodHombre View Post
Who cares?

The status quo is fine.
US ship parking in Taiwan ports is breaking the status quo. There are several basic conditions which will trigger a Chinese invasion, and one of them is allowing foreign forces to station on Taiwan.
 
Old 07-02-2017, 03:54 PM
 
5,792 posts, read 5,106,539 times
Reputation: 8008
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ian_Lee View Post
IMO US was under certain condition to agree to the "One China Principle" as dictated by Beijing to establish diplomatic relationship with PRC in 1979.

Nixon visited Beijing in 1972. It took seven years for US to establish relationship with China in 1979.
What had happened in these seven years? North Vietnam won the war in 1975 and Cam Ranh Bay was leased to the Soviet fleet. The entire Southeast Asia might face a domino effect which would fall into the Soviet sphere. Under such circumstance, Carter's National Security adviser Brzezinski urged Carter to expedite establishing relationship with PRC at the expense of severing tie with Taiwan. In fact, both US and China needed each other at that time to counter Soviet advance.

But now international geopolitics has completely undergone fundamental change.

Russia, though still perceived as an adversary, does not pose global challenge to US as USSR was. Vietnam is now a friend instead of a threat to US. Cam Ranh Bay may even be of potential use to US Seventh Fleet.

So when shared objective is gone, why would US still adhere to those unfavorable terms dictated by China in 1979 when diplomatic relationship was established?
The one china was the condition on which the sino American relationship was built. It also protect Taiwan by preventing china from resolving the issue by force. If the US abandon the One China principle, then china should and will abandon peaceful reunification. In the end, Taiwan cannot row away. The Taiwanese will be the only ones completely devastated in a war. China wants the island territory. It has already given up on the people on the island. So, the ball is really in the us court as far as taiwan's fate I think. China will be forced by its people to react resolutely if the us abandon the one china principle, or send warships to Taiwanese ports. The Taiwanese should be very cautious about this.
 
Old 07-02-2017, 04:12 PM
 
4,668 posts, read 3,898,896 times
Reputation: 3437
Quote:
Originally Posted by pennyone View Post
US ship parking in Taiwan ports is breaking the status quo. There are several basic conditions which will trigger a Chinese invasion, and one of them is allowing foreign forces to station on Taiwan.
Singapore has an active military base in Taiwan with around 3,000 soldiers. China tried to force Singapore to move the military base to Hainan, but Singapore refused. Japan also has military advisors in Taiwan, but on an unofficial basis, but they work permanently on a Taiwanese military base.
 
Old 07-03-2017, 12:50 PM
 
Location: Honolulu
1,708 posts, read 1,145,168 times
Reputation: 1405
I don't see US will change recognition or establish formal diplomatic relationship with Taiwan.

But most likely US will treat Taiwan like the way it treated PRC between 1972-1979. During that period, US maintained formal relationship with ROC in Taiwan. But on the other hand, it maintained frequent high level contacts with Beijing. Most likely US will still maintain formal relationship with PRC now, but will also enhance all kinds of contacts with Taiwan which the above-mentioned bills aim for.

Does US warship make port call at Taiwan imply foreign troops stationing in Taiwan as fellow poster alleged?

Of course not. US warships make frequent port calls at Hong Kong. Does that imply US troops stationing in Hong Kong?
 
Old 07-03-2017, 01:04 PM
 
Location: Honolulu
1,708 posts, read 1,145,168 times
Reputation: 1405
The US re-involvement in Taiwan precisely preserves peace in the region.

It deters PRC from invading Taiwan and it also deters any government in Taiwan deviating away from the status quo.

In the years after 1979 with the passage of Taiwan Relations Act, Taiwan's military had been in control of the Taiwan Strait. But now it has been losing that leverage no matter how US arms them. Only with the US re-involvement, even symbolic, can redress that balance.
 
Old 07-04-2017, 06:12 PM
 
5,792 posts, read 5,106,539 times
Reputation: 8008
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ian_Lee View Post
The US re-involvement in Taiwan precisely preserves peace in the region.

It deters PRC from invading Taiwan and it also deters any government in Taiwan deviating away from the status quo.

In the years after 1979 with the passage of Taiwan Relations Act, Taiwan's military had been in control of the Taiwan Strait. But now it has been losing that leverage no matter how US arms them. Only with the US re-involvement, even symbolic, can redress that balance.
How do you think it's right for the US to be redressing a balance right on China's doorstep? You must be dreaming. Taiwan will be asking for an immediate decapitation if it allows the US to park its warship in any Taiwan ports. That also include taiping island, which will be the first to be taken over by the PLA if Taiwan even begin to try to let the US park there...you are crazy to think china will tolerate such a situation.
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