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Then you must really hate the GOP's so-called healthcare bills.
I've made it clear on this forum many times I believe in nationalized health care. But I'm only one person.
Until we get the capitalistic sharks out of healthcare the problem will continue. There are a million other ways to become wealthy in America, healthcare should not be one of them.
In fact, I would support an amendment to the Constitution making it illegal to make a profit off healthcare OF ANY KIND in this country. It should be the Medical Arts, not Industry.
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"“If a thing loves, it is infinite.”"
(set 2 days ago)
Location: Great Britain
27,175 posts, read 13,455,286 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PullMyFinger
But the mother wants him to live. A civilized nation will respect that and do everything they can to help. It's just one child but says everything about a nation.
This baby is terminally ill and is not going to live regardless of the experimental treatment, and this is accepted by everyone. The fact he is in constant pain and suffering is the main factor dictating pallitative end of life care and pain relief, as well as the right to turn off the life support machines when deemed appriopriate.
As for the final decision, it was made by a supra-national or international court established by the European Convention on Human Rights (ECHR) in the 1950's and which makes such final decisions in relation to the 47 countries that have signed the European Convention on Human Rights.
The European Court of Human Rights (ECtHR) which upholds this human rights legislation, sits in Strasbourg in France, so the final decision was an international one.
I'm not disagreeing with you. I'm only pointing out that the difference is the Vatican hospital won't pull the plug on the baby without the parents consent.
That's because the Vatican and it's somewhat archaic moral values think prolonging suffering is less sinful than allowing someone to die. British hospitals disagree, which is why they asked the courts for permission to turn the life support off. The child's not getting better and while I can understand how grieving parents feel different in this moment, long term, that is the right thing to do.
This baby is terminally ill and is not going to live regardless of the experimental treatment.
As for the final decision, it was made by a supra-national or international court established by the European Convention on Human Rights (ECHR) in the 1950's and which makes such final decisions in relation to the 47 countries that have signed the European Convention on Human Rights.
The European Court of Human Rights (ECtHR) which upholds this human rights legislation, sits in Strasbourg in France, so the final decision was an international one.
Since you are willing to take this child from his mother for his own good, would you be willing to take healthy babies from unfit mothers?
Because again, like I said before if you want to do something truly good for a child and give him a chance that is where you should start, not from this poor, sad little family that have all the love in the world for this sick child.
Since you are willing to take this child from his mother for his own good, would you be willing to take healthy babies from unfit mothers?
Because again, like I said before if you want to do something truly good for a child and give him a chance that is where you should start, not from this poor, sad little family that have all the love in the world for this sick child.
Strange tangent - anyway throughout history 'unfit' mothers have had their children removed from them for the good of the child, again I am sure the decision is made on a case by case basis. I also know of children that have been 'missed' by the authorities and have suffered or even died because of this.
It wasn't long ago science said the Earth was flat and blood letting would cure almost anything.
This child was God's gift to us and we are being tested. I believe that 100%.
No, not just science. There is absolutely room for morality and ethics in this, and any similar case, and I have no doubt those issues were extensively examined by the caregivers, hospital and courts all throughout. Hospitals routinely have to go to court to withdraw end of life care when families don't agree. It happens in the US too, and it long precedes the debate about ACA, nationalized healthcare etc. I've worked at more than one large academic medical center when such situations were at hand. Decisions were never made in a vacuum. They always involved significant input from the Hospital Ethics Committee, which usually includes clinicians, non clinicians, clergy and even laypersons. No institution comes to these decisions lightly or without regard for the bigger picture.
Status:
"“If a thing loves, it is infinite.”"
(set 2 days ago)
Location: Great Britain
27,175 posts, read 13,455,286 times
Reputation: 19472
Quote:
Originally Posted by PullMyFinger
Since you are willing to take this child from his mother for his own good, would you be willing to take healthy babies from unfit mothers?
Because again, like I said before if you want to do something truly good for a child and give him a chance that is where you should start, not from this poor, sad little family that have all the love in the world for this sick child.
Whether a child is taken from his mother for it's own good depends on the circumstances and again it is for the Courts to decide.
The Family Courts in most countries decide such issues based on the evidence presented to them by various child protection agencies. Indeed this case started at the High Court Family Division went on to be appealed at the Court of Appeal and then was appealed further by the UK Surpreme Court before being heard for a final appeal by the European Court of Human Rights in Strasbourg in France. That's four court and four sets of Judges, who have all come to the same decision.
This has however little to do with this case, where the child has irreversible brain damage can not speak, hear, move, make a noise, eat or even breathe unaided and where the child is suffering and in pain.
The treatment in the US can not reverse any of these conditions and will just lead to more pain and suffering, whilst everyone recognises the child is terminally ill, that it will die eventually.
This baby is not a medical experiment or a guinea pig and deserves to be allowed to die in dignity without having to go through further unessary pain and suffering.
"On the heels of U.S. President Donald Trump expressing a desire to give assistance to the parents of Charlie Gard, the president of Bambino Gesù Hospital, the hospital of the Vatican, has made a direct outreach to the London medical establishment currently handling the infant’s case: "
They raised the money to move the baby so why not help him?
I suspect the child is too sick to move.
From what I have gathered it isn't a money thing. While conservatives in the USA are using this as a platform (how thoughtful of them) to point out the down side to a national health care system, I can't find one single statement from the parents or the doctors or anybody involved in the case that suggests the reason the doctors, medical courts have reached their conclusion is because of limited coverage under the national health care system.
Even the parents aren't using that argument -- just consrevatives here in the USA.
European judges agreed that undergoing experimental treatment would "continue to cause Charlie significant harm" and said their decision was "final".
The European Court of Human Rights in Strasbourgh have already made a ruling that the child stays at Great Ormond Street Hospital, so the Vaticans offer is not going to happen.
The treatment of children at Great Ormond Street Hospital is second to none, and they do have the childs best interests at heart in all cases they deal with.
Yet another reason the Brits were right in voting for BRexit.
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