North Korea launches ICBM (Michael Bloomberg, parties, elect, claim)

[burdell]

Originally Posted by WaldoKitty

Whether or not the DPRK has a nuclear weapon is no longer a debate. They have exploded several of them, and there is no way to fake it. The tests were picked around the world by numerous detectors which confirmed the DPRK's claims.

The real question is whether they can make them small enough to deliver with a missile system.

I never said it was, I merely pointed out the fear-mongering that goes on in the world.

[burdell]

Originally Posted by thecoalman

Producing the material required to make a bomb is an energy and time consuming process. Something like 10% of electric production in the US went to the Manhattan Project which produced enough material for 3 bombs. The Iranians kept adding more centrifuges, the only thing the Obama Iran deal did was slow that process. They continue to operate centrifuges.

And? My point was there is often a very large difference between talk and reality, as in being told 25 years ago that Iran was 3-5 years from a nuclear weapon.

[WaldoKitty]

Originally Posted by burdell

I never said it was, I merely pointed out the fear-mongering that goes on in the world.

Actually you did. And again, 100% wrong.

[burdell]

Originally Posted by WaldoKitty

Actually you did. And again, 100% wrong.

Well no, I did not, I merely pointed out the historic existence of fear-mongering in international relations, sorry if the point flew over your imaginative head.

[Chance and Change]

China has too much hand in the matter, when it has "fed and provided other support" while it Had Full Knowledge and Physical Proof that N. Korea was investing and waste its money in Weapons, at the expense of the masses of the people being left in utter destitution of many sorts. You don't feed a nation, so its leaders can develop weapons to threaten others. That is aiding and abetting an ensuing madness making campaign that one can threaten its neighbors. There is nothing for N. Korea to gain, by attacking S. Korea or Japan or any other Nation other than trying to engage in mass genocide.

If China withholds this aid.. then the people of N. Korea will be forced to stand up against its government, because the human survival instinct is the strongest instinct in mankind. They will find a way to make the government care for the people instead of promoting havoc around the region.

The world knows this guys is a nut, and his daddy was a nut too... let it be known that a pot of money is awaiting any of his inner staff who takes him down, and protections are available, and it won't take long before he is history and his cronies that side with him. Funnel the means for an insider to develop a team and that team can take them all down from within in a relative short time. Those insiders know whom are the "hard liners are" and that the network that has to come down. It's sad, but its the humane thing to do when one man and his inner circle make the lives of millions of people so miserable.

That's the cleanest way to avoid civilian casualties while leaving the infrastructure in tact. When he and his inner circle and his inner circle Generals are taken down... China can be engaged and prepared to "rush in and establish Martial Law" until they can find a leader that understands how to bring the nation to join "humanity and the World of Nations".

One might find that when this guy and his inner circle and that of his military is taken down, the N.Korean people will likely be delighted and within the next decade they can become a nation that finds means to prosper along with the world of nations.

A well planned and organized deployment by sectors in a coordinated well time act, We could use Non-nuclear Electromagnetic Pulse (NNEMP) weapons that can shut down many of their systems; coordinated with shutting down their electrical grid. while at the same time, disabling their Internet system.

We certainly should have the technology to supersede any waveform suppression devices they may have install, or simply make sure that the organized deployment is in enough saturation to overload any suppression devices.

I don't know why our Satellites are not equipped with Non-nuclear electromagnetic pulse weapons that can be laser directed to specific targeted locations. Unless one has a "thick lead shield over their nation", they would have little defense. We technically should be able to do the same thing with "anything they launch, where we have a dual system, that both disrupts the signals while laser targeting the projectile with high power laser that can cause it to self destruct, by burnish a hole in its fuselage and/or laser focusing enough energy that cause it to self explode. With laser considering it can transmit signals within its beam, it should be able to disarm any triggering devices that is connected to the warhead.

The days, of "Conventional Fly Over and Drop a Bomb" has its uses; but, in a case where an aggressor threatens his neighbors, we know within a conventional campaign to address conflict the aggressor can get off some missiles while being bombed, then we need to use the capability within technology of which we have.
The New Era of Electro-Magnet & Laser Styled SAC and TAC operations should be able to use these capabilities with good effectiveness.

Surely the second level of such weaponry is the Nuclear (NEMP) and high altitude nuclear (HEMP)
(NNEMP generators can be carried as a payload of bombs, cruise missiles (such as the CHAMP missile) and drones, with diminished mechanical, thermal and ionizing radiation effects, but without the political consequences of deploying nuclear weapons.

The range of NNEMP weapons is much less than nuclear EMP. Nearly all NNEMP devices used as weapons require chemical explosives as their initial energy source, producing only 10−6 (one millionth) the energy of nuclear explosives of similar weight. The electromagnetic pulse from NNEMP weapons must come from within the weapon, while nuclear weapons generate EMP as a secondary effect. These facts limit the range of NNEMP weapons, but allow finer target discrimination. The effect of small e-bombs has proven to be sufficient for certain terrorist or military operations.[citation needed] Examples of such operations include the destruction of electronic control systems critical to the operation of many ground vehicles and aircraft

The nature of what is "Threat Neutralization" in the 21st Century can't be the same as the methods employed during the 1940's (World War II), 1960-70's (Vietnam) ,1990's (Gulf War I) and the early 2000's (Invasion of Iraq and Afghanistan). We already know the infrastructure damage and civilian Casualties as well as the spread of splinter groups is too massive and too uncontrollable, and descends into other erratic formation, that results to a chaos of guerrilla style warfare madness.
We nor the Treat Initiator can support the level of casualties and cost that "old methods of war generate". We should not from the history of losses, the deaths of civilians, the expanse of moving mass volumes of equipment, the human medical cost, the mass of disabilities created, and the destruction of cities, communities, while creating million upon millions of refugees, along with the multitude of collateral results that come from historical conventional methods. Such things is not much different than "ancient methods of "threat neutralization". Besides we are not in aim to "Take Over as-in instituting an Invasion to Claim the Lands of North Korea". Thus so, the objective is not to seize territory.

Thus so, in understanding the overall objectives is different.

What we may need is to "enlist a Pool of New SAC and TAC Generals who know the value of these Technological Methods, and diminish the role of the Generals who promote the historical conventional methods. the Results in Iraq, Syria should tell us that the "Old Style Conventional Methods is "Messy and Excessively and Un-Necessarily Disastrous".

We have means to temporarily disable mass volumes of ground troops, by "Military Silent Sound Waves". Why we have not used this on ISIS is likely its too much to do about "Oil and Conventional Weapon Sales"... otherwise, we'd use the "right choice of methods" for the best outcome, instead of watching the carnage and allowing weapons selling and Oil Manipulators to control the activities.

[WaldoKitty]

Originally Posted by Chance and Change

I don't know why our Satellites are not equipped with Non-nuclear electromagnetic pulse weapons that can be laser directed to specific targeted locations.

Easy answer to that one. It's physics.

Because any spaced based NNEMP system that could be boosted into space, has no hope of producing a pulse that could do any damage on the surface of the earth. There available energy is a million times less than what is needed. It would have to be nuclear and those are banned by treaty.

[thecoalman]

Originally Posted by burdell

And? My point was there is often a very large difference between talk and reality, as in being told 25 years ago that Iran was 3-5 years from a nuclear weapon.

Without hard intel you can only make estimates and with NK it's unlikely they have any at all. What is known is they are nuclear state, have missiles, are working towards long range missiles etc. You can only make estimates and those estimates can be wildly off in any direction. For example Iraq was within about a year or two of being a nuclear state before the first gulf war. That program was completely missed by intelligence and wasn't discovered until the inspectors went in. The facilities they had for that program were 100% untouched. If Saddam had not invaded Kuwait we would likely be dealing with a nuclear armed Iraq by the mid 90's with Saddam in power.

[LeaveWI]

Scary leader who just happens to be a megalomaniac, sociopathic, narcissistic, self absorbed dangerous moron!! And the North Korea leader is bad too!!

[burdell]

Originally Posted by thecoalman

Without hard intel you can only make estimates and with NK it's unlikely they have any at all. What is known is they are nuclear state, have missiles, are working towards long range missiles etc. You can only make estimates and those estimates can be wildly off in any direction. For example Iraq was within about a year or two of being a nuclear state before the first gulf war. That program was completely missed by intelligence and wasn't discovered until the inspectors went in. The facilities they had for that program were 100% untouched. If Saddam had not invaded Kuwait we would likely be dealing with a nuclear armed Iraq by the mid 90's with Saddam in power.

I agree with you for the most part and don't want to minimize the problem NK presents. I'd just like to see serious thought before we involve ourselves in something we may come to regret. I well remember all the fear-mongering over Vietnam, that if it went Communist! the balance of the world would forever be thrown off and civilization as we knew it would be doomed . Well, it did go Communist! and today we trade with them. Might it not have been a better plan to just go ahead and trade with them in the first place? I'd not like to see another long, bloody, costly $$$ war of choice for no good reason.

[Compression]

Originally Posted by PullMyFinger

I was going to start a thread on this titled "Non Partisan issue, what is to be done about North Korea"

What do you folks think? I personally believe the issue affects both sides equally.

I personally believe that North Korea is trolling us and being encouraged by China. I believe any response by the US should be directed at China. Every time NK launches a missile we put some kind of an economic hit on China and state it clearly that we believe China is responsible for NK and will be held accountable.

Hmm, I really like the way you keep your lawn so trim and tidy, but that guy living to the right side of you not so much.

The next time he decides to let his lawn go uncut, ruining my view of the neighborhood. I'm gonna throw eggs all over the front of your house, because I believe you let him get away with it, by not pressuring him to keep my view in proper order. I do this because?.......I can't handle my own (insert best answer here) affairs?, emotions?, self defense?.......

Kim jding dong is stating his missiles can hit Hawaii, or Seattle. That should read as a threat. Is he threatening China?, Japan?, Russia? All those threatened directly should form a coalition and take care of the situation.

The wheels toward a solution, if there is one, tend to grind slowly. I have faith that there is work being done toward that end now. There are likely not many options that can solve this situation without some blood being spilled.



CN