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Old 07-06-2017, 10:42 PM
 
32,877 posts, read 12,147,766 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Freak80 View Post
America has always been a plutocracy that worked only for the benefit of wealthy elites. Ask Thomas Jefferson's slaves how that worked.

If you're looking for something resembling civilization, go to Canada or Western Europe.
When are you leaving ?

Canada borders upstate New York.
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Old 07-06-2017, 11:07 PM
 
3,565 posts, read 1,904,690 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lifeexplorer View Post
When everyone is successful, no one is successful. "Success" is a compatible term.

Each individual has different definition on being successful. Not everybody wants to accumulate money.
Not very many want to be eaten by the bear.
Everyone escaping the bear DOES NOT mean that no one is successful - I think it's a rather sick thought to believe otherwise.


Quote:
Originally Posted by lifeexplorer View Post
The lack of basic human decency, morality and intelligence from some of the left-wingers in this thread is astonishing!

When nobody is willing to pay you even the minimum wage for your work, what would you call yourself? In the normal people's mind, you are a loser.

Interesting juxtaposition of ideas in this post - suggesting that normal people considering other people as "losers" is basic human decency.


I would call myself by my name.
I would also recognize that the value society as a whole places on certain skills does no define how I think about an individual.

I wouldn't say that my 4th grade teacher was a loser because his net worth is a tiny fraction of Jay-Z's
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Old 07-06-2017, 11:08 PM
 
33,016 posts, read 27,318,188 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Crashj007 View Post
Just three points:
At minimum wage your tax rate is not 10-15%. A tax credit is available so you actually get money back from what I pay in. You're welcome, it's only fair.
Minimum wage is for minimum skill. You are supposed to live with your parents until your training and skill rises above the level of a high school graduate.
At minimum wage why do you have a car? Be like 90% of the rest of the civilized and uncivilized world and walk to work. Take the bus. Buy a bike. Around Raleigh, get a scooter seems to work well.

I have read recently, on this very forum, that there is some huge number, like 6 million, unfilled jobs because workers with skills can't be found. These jobs may be in your neighborhood, too. Look into it.



Childless adults NEVER "get money back" from what YOU pay in. EITC is CAREFULLY DESIGNED to NEVER give childless adults MORE THAN THEY THEMSELVES PAID IN.

I once had a car while working for minimum wage because I delivered pizzas and obviously I needed my car to do my job.
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Old 07-06-2017, 11:16 PM
 
26,721 posts, read 22,281,461 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chance and Change View Post
In other words, they are of the "Serfdom mentality" as was their ancestry who first came here? I actually have written and addressed that discussion before, and they scamper away each time. Their worship of the wealthy is so ingrained until nothing can change them to think in other ways. They actually go crazy if someone outlined that no CEO is worth 354 time more per hour than the average employee....

....But today, as was before... we are not that far removed from the influx of people from Autocratic and Monarchical societies from all across the European Continent. and many of them came here and wanted to install for themselves, the same thing they left, except they wanted to make themselves the new royalty, based on who's got money.
Well pretty much yes. Of course the "new establishment" had new opportunities to become the "masters" without belonging to the old cast system of royalty - i.e. yesterday's burger could become a plantation owner/amass big wealth and not to be looked down upon because of the lack of "royal blood" in his veins. So in this respect the rules of the game changed somewhat, but the WEALTH kept on playing the prominent role.

Quote:
When the fact of Monarchs long ago, were established, as leaders for the protections of the people, and wealthy was the means to assured that protections of the society of social community.
You need to remember too, that monarchs ( and aristocracy) believed that their privileged situation in the society ( and hence power) was given to them directly by God. Likewise, the new establishment in old America believed that wealth was a sign of God's blessing. These are the roots of the "conservative" beliefs and the whole current "world order," and they'll be defending the "fairness" of it till the last breath.

Quote:
People came here and they only saw the external trimming before they got here, and they'd made everything about "money", to the point, they instituted slavery, indenture and now in this day and age, they want to create a mass of SERF's and indentured them and cast them into levels of "destitution". while some stand back and "grandstand about how they made it".
As I've said, it WAS about money to begin with in the US, since the societies these people came originally from, were all about money too ( well money AND bloodlines,) but the second condition has been removed.


Quote:
American is sadly a land where Greed has gone crazy, now between Vanity and Greed, nothing else matters and people are AGAIN "used and abused" by the same mentalities sets, that once embraced slavery, only now, they pay low wages and count on the government to provide for their employees, what they should pay them so the employee can provide for themselves.
Ideally people of this mindset wouldn't want government to provide anything for their employees, because this doesn't give them the opportunity to take the full advantage of others, with part of their wealth being redistributed back to the lower segment of population.

Quote:
Often times its the same business owners crying about taxes, when it is THEM who is sending their own employees to the government office to get their needs met after having put in 8hrs a day of work, so the owners of the establishment can play the "i'm rich game"... These business owners are the greatest fleecers of the Government and the least likely ones willing to pay their share of taxes.

Quite honestly I think that "business owners" are not the same across the line, and I can totally see the ones that would love to pay higher salaries to their workers, but can't afford to, in order to keep their business operational. So it's not just "business owners," ( this would be easy to fix,) but rather American corporations that went global and manage to avoid taxes the most. When you look at the worst offenders sending their employees to stand with a hand stretch out to the government, the first ones that come to mind are McDonald's and Walmart. But I am sure there are quite a few of them out there.
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Old 07-06-2017, 11:19 PM
 
143 posts, read 97,872 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by freemkt View Post


Childless adults NEVER "get money back" from what YOU pay in. EITC is CAREFULLY DESIGNED to NEVER give childless adults MORE THAN THEY THEMSELVES PAID IN.
This is true ^

Most of the so-called "tax freebies" of low-income workers are only really claimable by people with kids (usually single mom types).

As a childless adult, the only thing you "get back" is what you paid in, in other words a net 0 "gain"
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Old 07-06-2017, 11:32 PM
 
Location: Living rent free in your head
42,745 posts, read 25,925,873 times
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[quote=erasure;48754340]You need to remember too, that monarchs ( and aristocracy) believed that their privileged situation in the society ( and hence power) was given to them directly by God. Likewise, the new establishment in old America believed that wealth was a sign of God's blessing. These are the roots of the "conservative" beliefs and the whole current "world order," and they'll be defending the "fairness" of it till the last breath. /QUOTE]
Well said, and Calvinism is still alive and well in the US and forms the basis for much of the hatred toward the poor and our focus on punishment in jails and prisons rather than rehabilitation
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Old 07-07-2017, 07:38 AM
 
5,472 posts, read 3,199,776 times
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WHO WANTS TO BROADEN THEIR MIND WITHIN EXPANDING THEIR LEARNING AND ADD DEPTH WITHIN THEIR UNDERSTANDING? Such ones, will explore variables to do so.
((This is far too much to read for some, so to those who feel as such... save yourself the anguish and the compulsion to complain about the length of text, and move on to what you are comfortable with )) The leading questions is your indicator that it is not for those who like slap stick two liners, and one dimensional, one factor commentary... it is best suited for those who enjoy "thinking and exploring" options to improve America for ALL.

Quote:
move to a place with a lower cost of living which usually have far fewer jobs and crappy public transportation.
Why are people telling others to move away from where they have friends and family? or go to places that have limited jobs and even lower pay? That's ludicrous .. so what that means is, give up the support and stability system of friends and family and move to some place that is cheaper which has "even less" well paying jobs. All so the Existing Jobs where they would be moving from can make a fortune while leaving the people in dire straits. What has happen to the civility and humanity of society?

It's the University Degree Training- We've had the last 45 yrs or more of these places teaching nothing but Greed training and how to disrespect the American worker, how to devastate the people and claim for ones self a raise and bonus by the number of people it can displace. We need a return to a time when "degree were specific and the people who pursued them had a passion for the field, and get away from this craziness of using degrees as nothing more than a "divide society" with a "get a job certificate" or be jobless. That IS NOT what the University Degree Program was designed to be nor to promote. It was to promote "specialization" for those who had and have a passion for "specialization" and that passion was to contribute to America's growth and development and make better the lives of its people as well as the world. Not as some game to play "status" divisions among its people, and only giving jobs to people who paid in the the mess of what University has become, which is nothing more than another "strictly for profit game". It is no longer about "quality specialization"... and truly ethical based educational training, it is about "dupe the student, grab their money and sell them nothing more than a "get a job certificate" and teach greed by any means, and disrespect the worker and declare ones self above all others.. That concept has weakened this nation and distorted the reality of its people. Kids now come out and craft policies, that even devastate their own families, all for ego elation and for a pat on the back, a bonus and a demand to be over paid in X time more than the people who actually do the work.

WE HAVE TO CHANGE THIS IDEOLOGICAL TRAJECTORY..... or we will continue to divide and erode America into an even more UN-recognizable mass of people.


When companies wonder why their sales drop, and they have to go chase producing on foreign soil and return selling cheap low grade crap. It is because they destroyed the base of the working Americans. And chose a game of Status and Greed .... and now the results have devastated a nation and its people.

When people worked and made a decent wages, they had purchasing power, "that's how American prospered", the business were not trying to break records every quarter, and they were not trying to make 300-3000% profit and be "instantly rich"... they simply year over year, "turned a living standard profit that allowed them even to upgrade and improve their operations while still realizing a healthy profit."
No one ways paying Executives 10's of million and giving the company to them via massive stock options.
That crazy fiction of claiming they had to do it to keep talent. It does not take a lot of talent to tell other people what to do, when the business model is already functioning well. Any Business can operate without a CEO... because American Business used "Company Presidents" long before the advent of the CEO...
The Company presidents jobs was to "RUN THE BUSINESS" .. a CEO'S Job is to find ways to strap the company any way it can to increase the stock holders value.
When the point of Stock Holding, was to invest for the Long Term, and not to expect a record braking stock price every 3 months. The investment was to provide stability funding, Research and Development Capital and to Facilities Managed Growth when and where it was necessary.

NOT to play fiction games with speculator valuations that benefit only the speculator, the brokers and traders and the wealthy who drain off the profits in pre-scheduled cycles and crash the market from profit taking, from what they already knew was speculator fictions. These people "damage" the point and meaning of why the stock market was created !!!! They'd turned it into nothing beyond being a crap shoot, designed to fleece the system.

[quote]
IF Stocks were adjusted back to the level to be measured by Actual Production and Actual Sales, the DOW would immediately fall to the $800 range, and maybe even less.
More American would invest and own Stock, and the gains on the stocks would go back to being factored to the long term. Mergers and Acquisitions would decline and Competition would be enhanced and product quality would become the key-point for Product productions and people would against focus on quality Sales and Service. Companies would be hiring people, and we would not have companies borrowing against "speculator fiction" and taking on crazy debt".
We;d have regulation that would put a choke hold on the crazy M&A games, Everything in America would begin again to prosper. Companies would be willing to sell, "replacement parts", because they would not get hung up in a mass of cheap disposable goods, because quality competition would not support selling crap.

There would be not Board of Directors making Deals to give the company to hired executives by giving away millions of Stock Options, There would be no crazy perks as if the executives were kings of the land. The Bond Market would return to be a honest program, with a reasonable return, in a reasonable span of time, because no one would be taking out Bonds for more than they could project to meet based on standard progression within market shares. We would not be chasing the greed game of Outsourcing and we would have people, who again, have a personal idenity with the company they worked for, and when all such things are stable... Then communities become stable. We'd find that the Model of America would again be on a pathway to build and sustain a Middle Class society, and people would not find it nearly impossible to meet and live to the generalized American Standard.

China is far smarter than America. They don't let their stock market run crazy, they will shut it down it if it starts to roll over the cliff. They won't allow their currency to play games against its people, because it knows it has 100's of million more people that have to be uplifted. American went there trying to tell them to let their currency float, and never once understanding why China's currency can't float like crazy. It would devastate its economy and lock out 100's of millions of people, and it's infrastructure building would grind to a halt, and it would not be able to provide quality maintenance to the infrastructure that is already built. This is why China has a loosing concept of Respect for American, because it see's the results of what Greed has done to America, and it is not going to do that to its people, nor its nation.
They look at us a "greed driven buffoons" !!!! We make money more important than people and nation.
We have people who are wealthy because we have good infrastructure and good systems, but those people don't want to pay taxes for the same thing they utilize and impose wear and tear upon the system.

All Americans can think is "privatize it to some greed chasers" so they can rip off the government and produce low grade infrastructure to secure for themselves a longer term maintenance agreement. China does not do that, "they invest and build "quality" infrastructure, so they don't have to come back and rebuilt it in a few decades. Its the same thing in the Nordic Region, they don't do what America does, they are not going to self defeat because of greed, bias, bigotry and racism, there is no group in these people country they are trying to hold down, hold back and promote any system of economic inequity.
They know when "All" do better, the Nation does better and its far stronger than it could ever be otherwise.

American Ignorance is Astounding, and now we have taken the next step into even more ignorance, of distancing ourselves from our Allies, all about "Money"!!!!!

Germany will partner with China and they will build working relations with Russia, as well as Russia will built its relations, because it understand the value of not self destroying itself. It has been propped up by illicit money moving around the globe. But they know now, they have to trace back and build mutual benefit relations with other nations, or it will become the same as the eroding America.
Its likely Russian in Syria is not because it just wants to be there, but it is not going to sit still and allow American Imperialist Agenda, get a foothold in that region. If American ever figures it out, then Russia will too help to stabilize Syria, as well as remove the current Syrian Leader and get someone that has stability in mind for Syria, but they are not going to let America usher in some Puppet, that favors America over Russia.... because they know that only increases conflict not only in the region, but that spread of conflict will be to Russia another threat, as well as to China.

Obama was moving us toward better World Diplomacy, but the Rabid Right Wing who still thinks in terms of Bully Stomping and Brute Force, called him weak because they can't understand Diplomacy, because they don't believe in "Equality". Its the exact same thing in this Nation of America, they can't respect diplomacy and equality, so they promote more race bias, race divisiveness and still is chasing white dominance and all they have done is destroy the fabric of America and create chaos around the globe.

In only 7 months, Trump has destabilized all the work President Obama did to strengthen Diplomacy, Attacked NATO and tried to Weaken it, while China and Russia is moving about the globe building diplomatic relations and working to establish ground work for a better mutual benefit trade agreement. We are hung up on trying to gain new grounds to place Mass Weaponry on Lands far and beyond what we already have stationed around the world. The more we do that, the more Russia is driven to counter that move.

Russian now buys our bonds, but we can't see the situation, as we still don't understand nor did we try to understand what happen in the Ukraine situation. Obama understood it, that's why he did not go attack them, But he was sending Russia the message that - there were other ways to have made better agreement and relations with Ukraine. Russia said: the escalating cost and usage of fuel by Ukraine was a debt greater than Ukraine had ability to meet, and at the debt level and future usage needs, it was better to annex Ukraine than to support debt escalation where Russia was supporting Ukraine but gaining nothing in return but increased debt by the credit that Ukraine wanted. It was doing what America would do in a like situation, is Protecting its Asset valuation that was growing like crazy with no means for repayment.

It put President Obama in an odd position, because it knew what was happening, but America had a right wing that had no idea to understand, and was trying to push war, rather than dialog and Obama was pushed to a situation it had no choice but to impose sanctions on Russia. Which further strained the Relations.

No one hears Republican talk one minute about GEO-Economic relations and how it impacts GEO-Political situations.

The problem with Trump is he is indebt and his motivation is not on a GEO-Economic level as much as its on a "obligatory framework" because of its massive usages of Russian Illicit Monies. Mueller will bring it out in the open. It won't fix the matter of the GEO-Economic and GEO-Political mess, and may even damage more the potential to build GEO-economic and GEO-Political understandings. Thus likely to set us back or on some course that is not good for either nation and certainly not good for the world of nations.

This is the result of what we get from the past 8 yrs of Republican with their 'Pledge to Fight Anything and Everything Obama did"... all because they could not digest the human rights basics of seeing a black man as President. Yet, as a nation we are the first ones to talk about Human Rights, and one of the most gross abusers of Human Rights on a Racial Economic Level.

To many this won't sound good, and its understandable. But on an everyday level of life... I know many Republican who are not deep core Right Wing and they are not Racist, some of my friends are law enforcement people and other fields who were at the top of their field during the turbulent times of high racism in the streets, but many of them have grown past that, many understood that the previous system of such was wrong. They are aged and they think more in terms of the challenges of their age, their aims to try and make life work and they don't espouse any racist demeanor. They know the devastation the industry losses caused to them and their families and they know what damages it caused to the minority population. The Rabid Right, never considers any of this, they can only thing of the 1950's in a self benefit ways that has no concern for the devastation's the 1950's was to minorities.

many of these people even thought they voted for Trump, they did not have a "hate Obama mentality", they simply thought Trump would be more focused on "Industrial Rebuilding' than pushing the madness he has lost himself in, they never thought he'd become obsessed with trying to destroy everything that Obama did. They thought he would build health care by allowing insurance companies to sell across state lines and put things in place to curb the run away cost of insurance and medical services. Instead what they see is a man, who has one mission... that is to devastate the poor, in every way for the sake of giving the wealthy a mass Tax Break. Most would accept a reasonable reduction in corporate tax, IF corporations invest in America, but not some massive give away and pretend they were going to trickle it down to the people. Most rational people knew it won't work that way, beause it was proven under Reagan not to work.

Now, only those who are deep core right wing are blindly supporting Trump and many moderate Republican are the ones in the Senators Offices fighting against this "Constructive Death Plan to Kill off the Poor and the Elderly" that Trump is promoting, which includes damages to Medicaid by its design that will kick old sick people out of Senior Care Facilities and leave the handicapped with nothing, and try and shift that burden to the families who are struggling on low wage jobs. Before its over and when all things are exposed, "Trump, will likely become the most hated man in America". At some points more and more people are going to awaken to the disaster of Republican Agenda.

Already people see, the Republican screamed and attacked for 6 yrs, and they have absolutely NOTHING that can help Americans when it comes to Health Care. Not Once did they make any moves to try and help fix the challenge points in ACA, they simply detested that a Black man who was a Democrat introduced a plan. They ignored the fact that President Obama said, it was only a first step that would require more work, because Republican fought every aspect that could have made it better from the start, all became they took a Pledge to Oppose Anything and Everything that Obama would do, try to do and everything that he did do.

Slowly people are beginning to see that Right Wing Bigotry and Bias is not good. It wants to go back to the Financial system gaming the people, and the Casino Games of wild gambling in the Financial Markets, and they see nothing but more trouble in the making. The moderate Republican and Democrats see it, and they don't like it. People kids can't go to higher education and instead of the cost going down, now it has gone up, and there is no even a remote thought of debt relief for the decades of rip off young people suffered under the excessive education cost started under the Reagan Administration.

Both Hillary and Sanders had a plan to help young people with Education. Trump has said absolutely nothing of concern for these things, yet Trump is the one who created A Fake University for the sake of greed and misled many young america people who were desperate to try and find a pathway and he took unfair advantage of them, then fought against giving them their money back.

Everything Trump uses the world "Fake" people should by now know, to apply the word to him, as he uses it as nothing more than a deflection. The same as his "lock her up", when facts prove he is the one that should be locked up, for the collusion in his cabinet, the ethics violations and the insidious ways he has damaged us on the world stage. And All Americans should be Livid at the crap that he is trying to dump on the poor, the aged and the physical and mentally challenged in our society, in the mess they pushed as a health bill, and his disastrous direct attack at Medicaid.

Its time for Republican to Face Up and Own Up to what their result of attack against the Jobs Bill Obama promoted, and they should truly be ashamed of their fight against - President Obama plan to Rebuild American From The Bottom Up, in which President Obama said: "It will take the help and participation of All Americans, and American Industry" to join in and lets Rebuild with Technology and Products for THE FUTURE.

President Obama was honest with the people, when he said, the "old style jobs are not coming back", but what many American know, but refused to accept, is that Technology along with MASSIVE outsourcing is what caused America problems. American should also know... that unless "ALL" American prosper, then nothing is going to lift us up. We can't play the same game that was played during segregation, where whites moved up and blacks were pushed, held and left in economic challenge and negative growth.

The Era of Racial based division should be over and America should know by now it is not good for America, it was not good during Slavery, it was not good during Segregation and it is not good in the America of Today. That should not be a difficult lesson to learn, nor should it be difficult to get past the thinking that made such a historical mess.
There is no history of America's prosperity without black people, it was the labors of black people that produced the volumes that America became wealthy marketing and exporting, and now it is time to make it fair and equitable to all people, black and white. No more indenturing poor whites and working poor whites, no more indenturing blacks and working poor blacks... We have to turn the corner and away from the madness of the past.. Only when we come to awareness of such hard core facts, will American find its means to prosper again.
We need in conjunction, Regulatory Governance against Mergers and Acquisition, "Outsourcing" and we need to set a target goals, to produce at the very least 40% of what we consume. Then we can structure Trade Agreement that are Mutual Fair Play Programs. One can't happen without the Other.
When we do that, we can reduce the Trade Deficition from crazy levels of $30 Billion a Month, down to a livable level of $5-7 Billion a Month, with places like China and we can get the same type of agreement with our other trade deals.

But we will get none of that done, if we don't get off this Fascism push and become a nation driven to build a True Democracy, and have some better Management of our system of Capitalism.

Capitalism was never meant to be a "do anything" and pay to circumvent and manipulate the system" it was meant so all could enjoy economic ability to provide, sustain themselves and develop a level of investment and savings in what makes a nation, its people, its communities and it states strong.

If we don't learn this, and honor this... we will descend further into the craziness of massive inequity that we current experience in this exact day and time, as we add to our future challenges for the generations that come after us.

Last edited by Chance and Change; 07-07-2017 at 09:05 AM..
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Old 07-07-2017, 08:27 AM
 
5,472 posts, read 3,199,776 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by erasure View Post
Well pretty much yes. Of course the "new establishment" had new opportunities to become the "masters" without belonging to the old cast system of royalty - i.e. yesterday's burger could become a plantation owner/amass big wealth and not to be looked down upon because of the lack of "royal blood" in his veins. So in this respect the rules of the game changed somewhat, but the WEALTH kept on playing the prominent role.



You need to remember too, that monarchs ( and aristocracy) believed that their privileged situation in the society ( and hence power) was given to them directly by God. Likewise, the new establishment in old America believed that wealth was a sign of God's blessing. These are the roots of the "conservative" beliefs and the whole current "world order," and they'll be defending the "fairness" of it till the last breath.



As I've said, it WAS about money to begin with in the US, since the societies these people came originally from, were all about money too ( well money AND bloodlines,) but the second condition has been removed.




Ideally people of this mindset wouldn't want government to provide anything for their employees, because this doesn't give them the opportunity to take the full advantage of others, with part of their wealth being redistributed back to the lower segment of population.




Quite honestly I think that "business owners" are not the same across the line, and I can totally see the ones that would love to pay higher salaries to their workers, but can't afford to, in order to keep their business operational. So it's not just "business owners," ( this would be easy to fix,) but rather American corporations that went global and manage to avoid taxes the most. When you look at the worst offenders sending their employees to stand with a hand stretch out to the government, the first ones that come to mind are McDonald's and Walmart. But I am sure there are quite a few of them out there.
You grasp well the factors being referenced and discussed and your commentary is good in expanse on subject matter.
As in the clarity reference as to concept of "bloodlines" of Monarchies; Understanding the God Ordained Premise.

Although in America it has taken on a new form in America of Nepotism by wealth accumulation and thus tries to promote the wealth bloodline as if its Royalty. They will never understand the nature of Monarchies who felt their status was God Ordained. The Bible Clearly Speaks of Kings, and how God established Kings as Rulers, but it was always for the base aim to care for the people and the nation they inhabit. When those Kings took it upon themselves to become Tyrants, their downfall in many instances was sealed and destined to fall, and in Gods programming, someone from the poor was elevated to those ranks as leaders. The principles in the Bible do not change. they may rearrange the character to push forth the principles... sadly, when that becomes necessary, many lives are lost, but in Gods plans, such cycles will continue and such who turn from the honors of leadership to that of being Tyrants, they have as history has shown, been brought down.

Please don't mis-interpert to surmise any term such as "business owners" would imply or mean all. I provided an example of the Fish places and the Soul Food establishments as examples that it does not include all Business owners). Other than that, your points within rebuttal reference within re-frames, provide good summary in engaging dialog.

Last edited by Chance and Change; 07-07-2017 at 09:10 AM..
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Old 07-07-2017, 10:32 AM
 
143 posts, read 97,872 times
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The thing is, can "they" really be trusted to lower their prices etc to a realistic/affordable level if minimum wage did not exist? If history is any indication, I doubt it....... prices are up up up in most categories of everyday life for most people "regardless" of the minimum wage.

I just don't trust "them" to voluntarily keep prices within a reasonable/affordable level for the average person. For example, we've seen what's happened with rents over the last 10 years or so, it's just gone up up up despite flat wages (so "rising wages causing inflation" theory doesn't fly). It seems prices of most things go up "despite" wages being almost completely flat, it flies directly in the face of right-wingers often-spouted "if we raise poor people's wages we will get hyper-inflation" theory.

I cringe at what "they" would do if there was no minimum wage, would we then literally be a 3rd-world nation with 5-8 people crammed to an apartment? Earning $400 a month? With owning a car being a "luxury"? And eating beans and rice every day like the 3rd-world? I thought this was America and that we were "above" such a primitive existence??

"They" have no honor or decency or moral compass, and are only driven by greed, they lie/cheat/steal, destroy the environment, leave investors/employees holding the bag, evade taxes, etc. If they are given an inch they take a mile.

Last edited by UbbyJuice; 07-07-2017 at 10:40 AM..
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Old 07-07-2017, 11:19 AM
 
Location: Living rent free in your head
42,745 posts, read 25,925,873 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by UbbyJuice View Post
The thing is, can "they" really be trusted to lower their prices etc to a realistic/affordable level if minimum wage did not exist? If history is any indication, I doubt it....... prices are up up up in most categories of everyday life for most people "regardless" of the minimum wage.

I just don't trust "them" to voluntarily keep prices within a reasonable/affordable level for the average person. For example, we've seen what's happened with rents over the last 10 years or so, it's just gone up up up despite flat wages (so "rising wages causing inflation" theory doesn't fly). It seems prices of most things go up "despite" wages being almost completely flat, it flies directly in the face of right-wingers often-spouted "if we raise poor people's wages we will get hyper-inflation" theory.

I cringe at what "they" would do if there was no minimum wage, would we then literally be a 3rd-world nation with 5-8 people crammed to an apartment? Earning $400 a month? With owning a car being a "luxury"? And eating beans and rice every day like the 3rd-world? I thought this was America and that we were "above" such a primitive existence??

"They" have no honor or decency or moral compass, and are only driven by greed, they lie/cheat/steal, destroy the environment, leave investors/employees holding the bag, evade taxes, etc. If they are given an inch they take a mile.
It's exactly what they want to do, and are working toward. Welcome to neo-feudalism
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