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Christ came for one reason: To be a sacrifice for the sins of all who would believe.
Right, this is the part I have a problem with.
How is this a moral concept in the slightest? The idea that an innocent person can shoulder the consequences of the actions of the guilty and God is completely satisfied by it is just completely morally repugnant. We don't allow mothers/fathers to take the sentences for their murderer children, as it would be an obvious miscarriage of justice, yet God the ultimate creator of all reality somehow can't do better than the American justice system?
Sounds like the kind of justice that someone living in a repressive society a few thousand years ago would come up with.... oh wait...
"There appeared what is known as the Great Bible in 1539. It was only another version made by Coverdale on the basis of the Matthew version, but corrected by more accurate knowledge. There is an interesting romance of its publication. The presses of England were not adequate for the great work planned; it was to be a marvel of typography. So the consent of King Francis was gained to have it printed in France, and Coverdale was sent as a special ambassador to oversee it. He was in dread of the Inquisition, which was in vogue at the time, and sent off his printed sheets to England as rapidly as possible. Suddenly one day the order of confiscation came from the Inquisitor-General. Only Coverdale's official position as representing the King saved his own life. As for the printed sheets on which so much depended, they seemed doomed. But in the nick of time a dealer appeared at the printing-house and purchased four great vats full of waste paper which he shipped to England—when it was found that the waste paper was those printed sheets. The presses and the printers were all loyal to England, and the edition was finally completed. The Great Bible was issued to meet a decree that each church should make available in some convenient place the largest possible copy of the whole Bible, where all the parishioners could have access to it and read it at their will. The version gets its name solely from the size of the volume. That decree dates 1538, twelve years after Tyndale's books were burned, and two years after he was burned! The installation of these great books caused tremendous excitement—crowds gathered everywhere. Bishop Bonner caused six copies of the great volume to be located wisely throughout St. Paul's. He found it difficult to make people leave them during the sermons. He was so often interrupted by voices reading to a group, and by the discussions that ensued, that he threatened to have them taken out during the service if people would not be quiet. The Great Bible appeared in seven editions in two years, and continued in recognized power for thirty years. Much of the present English prayer-book is taken from it." Preparing the Way: The English Bible before King James
________
That page is great as it covers a good amount of the history of the Holy Bible and how it all most met its demise, but I recall yet another, where all was burned but one and the only reason it wasn't gone, was because it was in a vault.
I'm missing where a king had all bibles except one burned.
Christ came for one reason: To be a sacrifice for the sins of all who would believe.
Quote:
Originally Posted by zzzSnorlax
Right, this is the part I have a problem with.
How is this a moral concept in the slightest? The idea that an innocent person can shoulder the consequences of the actions of the guilty and God is completely satisfied by it is just completely morally repugnant. We don't allow mothers/fathers to take the sentences for their murderer children, as it would be an obvious miscarriage of justice, yet God the ultimate creator of all reality somehow can't do better than the American justice system?
Sounds like the kind of justice that someone living in a repressive society a few thousand years ago would come up with.... oh wait...
And He said, in His last breath, 'Forgive them Father for they know not what they do" ...
He was innocent, they hung Him in the most brutal manner and yet, He asked God the Father to what? Forgive them?
Better person than any ... and people call that repugnant ... ? Well see there you go, the ultimate sacrifice and it isn't appreciated but ridiculed ...
This is why I roll my eyes at evangelicals. They use the Bible as a weapon to defend that which they don't agree with but they will elect Trump who does much worse and now this:
"The Department of Justice filed a civil complaint in New York, and announced that Hobby Lobby had agreed to the fine and to forfeit thousands of antiquities including cuneiform tablets and clay bullae that prosecutors said were smuggled through the United Arab Emirates and Israel to the United States using deliberately false labeling practices."
And He said, in His last breath, 'Forgive them Father for they know not what they do" ...
He was innocent, they hung Him in the most brutal manner and yet, He asked God the Father to what? Forgive them?
Better person than any ... and people call that repugnant ... ? Well see there you go, the ultimate sacrifice and it isn't appreciated but ridiculed ...
No, I call the idea that this great person is an acceptable sacrifice to God for you to be able to ignore the personal responsibility for your own thoughts and actions repugnant, but that was a decent attempt to deflect through feigned misunderstanding I suppose.
In what universe does a completely innocent person accepting the punishment for a murderer's crimes while the murderer goes free resemble any kind of justice? What kind of God would think that is acceptable?
The entire philosophy is based around dumping personal responsibility for our own f**k ups onto an innocent sacrifice.
If infinite punishment is TRULY a just punishment for our finite crimes (which is messed up as well), then the moral thing to do would be to accept it rather than trying to pass the buck on to Jesus.
I'm missing where a king had all bibles except one burned.
You missed reading this part of my post:
Quote:
That page is great as it covers a good amount of the history of the Holy Bible and how it all most met its demise, but I recall yet another, where all was burned but one and the only reason it wasn't gone, was because it was in a vault.
To quote Gandhi; Your Christians are so unlike your Christ.”
Ain't it the truth.
I grew up on parables.
The Good Samaritan - Help out those in need, even if you don't know them.
Loaves and Fishes - There is plenty enough for everyone if we just share.
Let he who is without sin cast the first stone.
Judge not lest ye be judged.
...
So how it is that the righteous don't make an attempt at being nonjudgmental, sharing, helping out those in troubled times, ... ?
Trumpcare debate has been an eye opener for some. Just read where a third of Republicans polled recently support repealing ACA even without a replacement health care plan.
Who are these people?
And why are Christians having anything to do with them, much less a solid slice of Trump's base?
No, I call the idea that this great person is an acceptable sacrifice to God for you to be able to ignore the personal responsibility for your own thoughts and actions repugnant, but a decent attempt to deflect through feigned misunderstanding anyway.
In what universe does a completely innocent person accepting the punishment for a murderers crimes while the murderer goes free resemble any kind of justice?
The entire philosophy is based around dumping personal responsibility onto an innocent sacrifice.
Quote:
In what universe does a completely innocent person accepting the punishment for a murderers crimes while the murderer goes free resemble any kind of justice?
In man's universe. Man did that to Him.
He knew it was to come about and He prepared His disciples for the situation and they told Him, we do not understand what it is you are speaking about and He replied ...
If I tell you of things of the flesh and you understand not, how is it you will understand that which is of the spirit?
So there you go ...
Last edited by Ellis Bell; 07-07-2017 at 09:33 AM..
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