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Old 07-09-2017, 09:41 AM
 
Location: Florida
10,443 posts, read 4,030,967 times
Reputation: 8463

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Quote:
Originally Posted by jbcmh81 View Post
There are plenty of things we can do that don't require billions of people giving up basic amenities. We can invest in better technologies in power, transportation and even waste disposal, for example. We can have sensible regulations on pollution. We can actively choose to have fewer kids. We can invest in education. Why is it that the only choices you see are the status quo or nothing? Do your political biases blind you that much that you really don't think we can't do anything?
And seriously, you're talking about refrigerators and cars while the subject is the actual dying of the planet. Priorities, jesus.
Why would people choose to have fewer kids when all the welfare programs give the low wage/no wage person more money to the people with the most kids?

And, guess what, with education, the USA spends more per child than any other country in the world, but obviously we're getting less intelligent kids in the end. So, how will investing in more money into an educational system that is clearly not benefiting our kids going to help?

U.S. education spending tops global list, study shows - CBS News

US spends almost $11k per student, while Japan and South Korea spend less and outpace American students in test scores.

I do believe that we are investing into better technologies, but they are expensive, and when the majority of the people are making just enough to put a roof over their head and food on the table, there isn't much more they can do to contribute to making the Earth greener. And, good luck on forcing the rich to pay, because all they will do is throw in lobbyist to create loop holes in laws so they don't have to pay. Why do you think NAFTA was such a success under both the Bush and Clinton administration? You really think either party cares about the people? No, they only cared about helping out their fellow crony business men who invested into their campaigns, and create legislation, regulations, taxes and fees that only hurt the small business owner because they don't have access to the kind of capital or connections big corporations have, to stay in business.

And when the little guy does try and become self sufficient, there are emergency laws created to keep them strapped down, (a Florida woman was fined when she attempted to remove herself off the grid by creating a home that was self sufficient with the use of solar panels and wells). We even have senate and house legislators blocking other senators and legislators for creating bills that would make it possible for home owners and businesses to invest in solar panels at no upfront cost, but paid over time. Reason being, the power companies with their monopolies, pay hard money for politicians to block anything to do with solar power, at least here in Florida. » In Sunshine State, Big Energy Blocks Solar Power

Until we make lobbyist illegal, we probably won't see politicians pushing for solar power, or until they find a way where you can only lease it from the power companies. It's kind of why we are not seeing a major push for marijuana to be legalized. It's been illegal for so long, regular folks know how to grow it, so the politicians are setting up laws so only people with PHd's and major pharmaceutical companies can grow and sell it.
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Old 07-09-2017, 10:11 AM
 
Location: PSL
8,224 posts, read 3,494,176 times
Reputation: 2963
Quote:
Originally Posted by warhorse78 View Post
Why would people choose to have fewer kids when all the welfare programs give the low wage/no wage person more money to the people with the most kids?

And, guess what, with education, the USA spends more per child than any other country in the world, but obviously we're getting less intelligent kids in the end. So, how will investing in more money into an educational system that is clearly not benefiting our kids going to help?

U.S. education spending tops global list, study shows - CBS News

US spends almost $11k per student, while Japan and South Korea spend less and outpace American students in test scores.

I do believe that we are investing into better technologies, but they are expensive, and when the majority of the people are making just enough to put a roof over their head and food on the table, there isn't much more they can do to contribute to making the Earth greener. And, good luck on forcing the rich to pay, because all they will do is throw in lobbyist to create loop holes in laws so they don't have to pay. Why do you think NAFTA was such a success under both the Bush and Clinton administration? You really think either party cares about the people? No, they only cared about helping out their fellow crony business men who invested into their campaigns, and create legislation, regulations, taxes and fees that only hurt the small business owner because they don't have access to the kind of capital or connections big corporations have, to stay in business.

And when the little guy does try and become self sufficient, there are emergency laws created to keep them strapped down, (a Florida woman was fined when she attempted to remove herself off the grid by creating a home that was self sufficient with the use of solar panels and wells). We even have senate and house legislators blocking other senators and legislators for creating bills that would make it possible for home owners and businesses to invest in solar panels at no upfront cost, but paid over time. Reason being, the power companies with their monopolies, pay hard money for politicians to block anything to do with solar power, at least here in Florida. » In Sunshine State, Big Energy Blocks Solar Power

Until we make lobbyist illegal, we probably won't see politicians pushing for solar power, or until they find a way where you can only lease it from the power companies. It's kind of why we are not seeing a major push for marijuana to be legalized. It's been illegal for so long, regular folks know how to grow it, so the politicians are setting up laws so only people with PHd's and major pharmaceutical companies can grow and sell it.
LOL Florida didn't block the purchase or lease of solar panels! Do you know how many solar panels are in my town?! Never mind solar pool heaters!

Florida would have to raise taxes or create an income tax to reimburse purchases of solar. No... if you want it, buy it. Why should tax money be redistributed to subsidize your costs? I get you want an incentive to make it cheaper... or an incentive to go solar... but come on... really?
There's no blocking of the purchase and installation of solar panels...
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Old 07-09-2017, 10:14 AM
 
Location: PSL
8,224 posts, read 3,494,176 times
Reputation: 2963
What I don't understand... why does the government, specifically, tax payers, have to offset the costs of everything? Why? If you can afford it, do it. Can't afford it, look for a cheaper retailer. Why the incessant need to intervene free markets?
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Old 07-09-2017, 10:19 AM
 
Location: Flyover Country
26,212 posts, read 19,509,699 times
Reputation: 21679
Quote:
Originally Posted by Frank DeForrest View Post
Says someone who supports the largest destroyer of the environment.
I don't understand what that means. All I can extrapolate from this statement is I somehow support the military industrial complex, which I clearly do not.
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Old 07-09-2017, 10:27 AM
 
Location: Long Island
57,227 posts, read 26,172,300 times
Reputation: 15620
The GOP tribe that denies global warming is a unique breed, hard to find another in the world that has their point of view.
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Old 07-09-2017, 10:33 AM
 
7,800 posts, read 4,397,040 times
Reputation: 9438
Climate deniers only care about one thing. How much do they have in their pocket today. They do not care what environmental inheritance they leave their own children or future generations. If they leave a sterile or dying world that is fine with them so long as they save that last nickel.

That is all that matters,
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Old 07-09-2017, 10:35 AM
 
Location: Long Island
32,816 posts, read 19,471,329 times
Reputation: 9618
Quote:
Originally Posted by Goodnight View Post
The GOP tribe that denies global warming is a unique breed, hard to find another in the world that has their point of view.
1. its not just gop supporters

2. very few are denying global warming...in fact science and history state that we have been warming since the peak of the last ice age 16,000 years ago

3. global warming (interglacial periods) and global cooling(to ice ages) is a natural cycle..and has happened over 2 dozen times since this earth was formed 4 billions years

4. its natural..has happened before, will happen again...every interglacial period has peaked around 74-75' f ...currently only at about 59'f

5. if its natural, and man's contribution is less than 5% then it is a lie to call it man-made or man-caused
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Old 07-09-2017, 10:39 AM
 
27,307 posts, read 16,212,564 times
Reputation: 12102
Quote:
Originally Posted by WRnative View Post
Trump and other climate change deniers, who never discuss clearly observed empirical impacts such as ocean acidification and ocean warming, now can ignore that the Great Barrier Reef has been declared dead, with a disastrous impact on marine life.

<<
Climate change and ocean acidification have killed off one of the most spectacular features on the planet.

>>

https://www.outsideonline.com/211208...illion-bc-2016
Great Barrier Reef dead at 25 million | New York Post

https://www.pmel.noaa.gov/co2/story/...idification%3F

The Koch brothers, their Republican puppets, Trump and his Trumpies all can take a bow.

Is it any wonder that most of the rest of the world now looks at the U.S. environmental policies with dismay, if not total disgust?

Global food security is at great risk if man-made climate change is not mitigated in the near future.

<<
The world’s population is expected to grow to almost 10 billion by 2050, an increase of around 30 per cent.
Almost half the world’s population relies on food from the ocean as the primary source of protein, and with this anticipated population growth seafood will continue to be in high demand.
For many decades scientists have studied the changing climate and now have clear evidence of impacts on the ocean.>>


https://blogs.csiro.au/ecos/fisherie...limate-change/

One example of what worries marine scientists:

<<Rising sea levels will cover wetlands and other low lying habitats where fish reproduce, and destroy mangroves, the nurseries for many commercially important fish species.>>

https://www.msc.org/healthy-oceans/t...climate-change
More fear mongering. Blah, blah.

The reef isn't dead. It's still there. The fish are still there. Sea levels rise and fall.

Screech your doom message elsewhere.
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Old 07-09-2017, 10:41 AM
 
27,307 posts, read 16,212,564 times
Reputation: 12102
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ellise View Post
How about asking them to consider what sort of future their kids will have, living on a dying planet?
It's dying? Possibly in the next millennia or two.
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Old 07-09-2017, 10:43 AM
 
12,031 posts, read 6,561,999 times
Reputation: 13975
Quote:
Originally Posted by WRnative View Post
-

The Koch brothers, their Republican puppets, Trump and his Trumpies all can take a bow.
Al Gore, George Soros, Hollywood celebrities, Nancy Pelosi, Oprah Winfrey, and all their hypocritical liberal puppets all can take an even BIGGER bow as they all have the carbon footprints of Godzilla with their private jets, their multiple enormous mansions, and their gas-hogging limousines. Yet they have the audacity to lecture the rest of us on environmentail issues.
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