Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
Still seems to me to be a tactical error to even enter the back yard at all with dogs in it if you think there may be armed criminals in the house, what happens when they shoot you in the back through the window while you are trying to line up shots on the dogs... In that case the dogs would be a known and CONTAINED threat, while the status in the house would be an UNKNOWN but still contained threat, entering the back yard removes the contained part and exposes them to the only known threat, at the expense of distracting from the unknown threat right?
They'd shoot the cop in the back by any means he tried to handle the dog. But the larger point is that it's the dog that has become the known threat of the moment.
As I said from the start, this is an owner failure. Don't set up your house to summon the police and then keep your dogs outside.
A few months ago in Joplin Mo. The police actually brought in heavy equipment and punched a hole in the side of a house because tear gas did not work. Problem was, no one was in the house, They were at the wrong address. Now the HO is having no luck getting them to fix it.
A few years ago in Kc Ks, the police burst in unannounced to the wrong house. Then they broke down the door into the owners bedroom, they never announced they were cops, in the middle of the night, he reached for his gun for protection and they killed him. The courts gave them a pass.
A few months ago in Joplin Mo. The police actually brought in heavy equipment and punched a hole in the side of a house because tear gas did not work. Problem was, no one was in the house, They were at the wrong address. Now the HO is having no luck getting them to fix it.
That wasn't the house they were called to, however, so it's not the situation you proposed and not analogous to this situation. In this situation, the police responded to the house they were called to.
This is more analogous to a situation in which a person calls for police to respond to a break-in, and then is prowling around the yard himself with a gun as the police arrive.
That wasn't the house they were called to, however, so it's not the situation you proposed.
A) He didn't propose the situation, I did
B) Do you need me to get a microscope so that you can split hairs a bit finer? The fact that it was the wrong house makes it EVEN WORSE. The fact that it was the wrong house and now they wont pay for it makes it WORSE squared.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ralph_Kirk
This is more analogous to a situation in which a person calls for police to respond to a break-in, and then is prowling around the yard himself with a gun as the police arrive.
Wrong, a person prowling around the fenced in back yard with a gun can hurt the police outside the fence from inside the fence. A dog in a fenced in yard cannot, you have to enter the fenced in yard for it to become a threat. Good to see all the phony conservatives who only pay lip service to property rights though, very eye opening.
Last edited by zzzSnorlax; 07-14-2017 at 07:10 AM..
A) He didn't propose the situation, I did
B) Do you need me to get a microscope so that you can split hairs a bit finer? The fact that it was the wrong house makes it EVEN WORSE. The fact that it was the wrong house and now they wont pay for it makes it WORSE squared.
Yes, the fact that it was the wrong house does make it even worse. That's my point--that's an "even worse" situation that does not apply to this situation.
Quote:
Wrong, a person prowling around the fenced in back yard with a gun can hurt the police outside the fence from inside the fence. A dog in a fenced in yard cannot, you have to enter the fenced in yard for it to become a threat.
But they must enter the fence.
Quote:
Good to see all the phony conservatives who only pay lip service to property rights though, very eye opening.
If you call me a conservative, it only means you've never read my posts and thus don't have enough information about me to call me anything.
As someone who's tired of neighbor's barking dogs and them leaving the dogs outside all day, I've lost all sympathy towards dog owners. Many of them are so irresponsible with their pets that it gives them all a bad name. I only wish a cop would get called to some of their houses and their dogs would get loose outside their fenced in areas and cages. They could legally get the job done that I would get arrested for doing, putting the dog that barks 8 hours a day in that cage a few houses down out of it's misery. It's not like the owners take proper care of them given they're outside in temps ranging from -10F to 95F in all types of weather. Better yet, take care of the owner and give the dog to an owner that will give it proper attention rather than running all their businesses while it's outside all day annoying the neighbors.
We have a dog problem in our culture that is far bigger than Pits and Rotts. I appreciate your taking the time for a lengthy and articulate response, but it misses my larger point - quite understandably since I purposefully avoided making it clear. For to do so would essentially drop a Mark 77 bomb on this thread.
"It's not the animals fault". Right. Nor is it when a Black Mamba, Saltwater Crocodile, Bengal Tiger, or Great White Shark attacks.
Well, in fairness a domestic dog in a fenced yard is hardly analogous to a crocodile or a shark. That's rather apples and oranges. The dog is in a controlled environment and an approach plan can be sorted out. Not quite like a croc or shark roaming open water. That's where I'm having problems with this situation. It would have been very easy and only taken short seconds for the officer to figure out if there were dogs in the yard. After figuring out there were two large dogs in the back yard that pretty much eliminates a possible avenue of escape for any perp that's in the house and whittle down the areas he needed to check. Entering the back yard wasn't really necessary.
And if there had been perps in the house by opening up on the dogs he handed the element of surprise and all tactical advantage over to them. I just don't see proper possible crime scene/assumption that suspects are present procedure here. In short the cop blew it. He surrendered any tactical advantage and if there had been perps in the house (which safe money assumes there are) they would have been a FAR greater danger than the dogs, dontcha think? He could easily just made a slight noise or tossed a rock into the yard to see if there were dogs present. Which again he should have just assumed there was, and knowing the dogs were there considered the back yard as being covered.
It's an ingrained habit for me personally to announce my presence at a closed gate. I take it as a gimme there's going to be at least one dog in there. The cop lost any control over the situation when he jumped the fence sight unseen. The entire scenerio is just full of holes and errors in judgement. The cop created a situation where he was facing double trouble without back up. Had there been intruders in the house and they were armed they could have easily just come out and shot him in the back yard.
He even collected his brass for Petes sake. Doesn't go much toward me feeling he was on red alert and worried about suspects in the house. Are we looking at the same situation here? In light of these points I've brought up I'm very confused as to what could possibly have been going through this cops mind.I had always thought that cops were supposed to be trained to analyze and think through potentially dangerous situations.
Last edited by NVplumber; 07-14-2017 at 10:53 AM..
Again I am having trouble with the idea that in a free country on property you own inside a properly fenced in area that there is something wrong with having "outside" dogs.
Seems very very fascist police statish to me: "Zese dogs are not in ze approved dog area! Exterminate zem!"
Granted, doing both the above AND having an alarm system that will auto call the police is clearly a bad idea from a practical perspective.
But police come out to your house because of an alarm you expect them to be there to defend your property not gun down your contained pets. That is about the bare minimum I would expect the police to practice if they want to maintain the respect of the population.
Seems equivalent to police showing up at an alarm call, with no idea if a person is inside your house or not they shoot tear gas and a flash bang through the window then kick in all the doors. Whoops no one home and now the homeowner is on the hook for all the damage and clean up, which is now probably more expensive than it would have been if someone had actually robbed the place.
Although that is better than no knock raids on the WRONG house and then summary execution of the innocent occupants so it could and does get worse I suppose.
But maybe that is the end goal? Make people dislike and fear the police so much that they just never call them in any situation and then the cops can just sit on their asses all day long? Maybe if they are bored go write a few speeding tickets?
shut the bleeping things up or train them with bark collars. Seems very inconsiderate to leave dogs outside all day long unsupervised where they bark at anything that moves. Get an acreage if you want free roaming dogs you're not willing to put a bark collar on.
shut the bleeping things up or train them with bark collars. Seems very inconsiderate to leave dogs outside all day long unsupervised where they bark at anything that moves. Get an acreage if you want free roaming dogs you're not willing to put a bark collar on.
So the assumption that one time you had a s**t neighbor with poorly trained barking dogs, we should eliminate the freedom of everyone everywhere to have outside dogs fenced in on their own property?
Like, that seems pretty f**kin statist, man.
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.
Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
Doesn't go much toward me feeling he was on red alert and worried about suspects in the house. Are we looking at the same situation here? In light of these points I've brought up I'm very confused as to what could possibly have been going through this cops mind.I had always thought that cops were supposed to be trained to analyze and think through potentially dangerous situations. 
