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Archie Bunker was a character created for TV. We were meant to feel uncomfortable because of his racism and bigotry but sympathetic for him because of the love of his family. His actions and words were carefully crafted to produce a reaction from the audience.
In real life...meh -- a little more complicated. It would be rare to find that kind of person.
I think superficially it would be okay.....but day to day it would be difficult for me to feel close to someone like that.
Family is complicated and it isn't uncommon to have a family member (by blood or marriage) who we would NEVER EVER associate with in other circumstances but they are part of our family group and you end up 'loving' them.
I've had patients who were racist and backwards in their thinking of people who werent like them, and they were decent enough people in their everyday lives, but I know if I were black their entire disposition would've changed and I can't see past that. Plus if they were in any form of position of power (political, business, residential, educational, etc) I don't doubt they would skew towards the negative with any black or brown person they encountered from the start, which affects those peoples' lives and ability to progress.
Archie Bunker was a character created for TV. We were meant to feel uncomfortable because of his racism and bigotry but sympathetic for him because of the love of his family. His actions and words were carefully crafted to produce a reaction from the audience.
In real life...meh -- a little more complicated. It would be rare to find that kind of person.
I think superficially it would be okay.....but day to day it would be difficult for me to feel close to someone like that.
Family is complicated and it isn't uncommon to have a family member (by blood or marriage) who we would NEVER EVER associate with in other circumstances but they are part of our family group and you end up 'loving' them.
Yeah, I have one person in my family who is sort of like that...but demographically, except for age, he's not like Archie Bunker. He has a doctorate. He's a self made ultra high net worth guy, and he has a genius level IQ....about 170. He's white, and he's in his 90s. I've never heard about any comments made to anyone other than family members, and he rarely does that because his kids and grandkids get after him/don't let him get away with it. His great grandkids are still toddlers. He's generous, has a good sense of humor, and he and his wife have done quite a bit of volunteer work, going back many decades. He has had tons of friends, only not as many now because of his age. He's also very opinionated. IIRC, he only had to spend about 5 years of his life working for someone else. He and his first wife did a great job raising their kids, who aren't like him re this subject.
I know one person (a friend of a friend....we now interact separately with our mutual friend) who is half white (and that parent is a native european) and half British West Indian of African roots. That person (who didn't grow up in the U.S.) is more prejudiced against Black Americans and the Black American culture than any completely white person I have ever encountered in my life.
Last edited by RMESMH; 07-12-2017 at 07:24 AM..
Reason: ADDED 2nd PARAGRAPH
So then, following your own logic, you shouldn't be demonizing liberals.
After all there is a lot more in every person's life than their political beliefs. If a person is good, then their politics don't really matter all that much.
For example would you consider someone like Archie Bunker a good or bad person. Personally I would think someone like Archie would be a good and decent individual. Even Meathead when saying farewell to Archie said "I Love You Archie". The point is that we all have short comings and faults but most of us are good and decent people inside. And you liberals should not be so quick to demonize folks.
Archie hates everyone who disagrees with him just like liberals today. Liberals have taken it to another level by attempting to silence and personally destroy anyone who disagrees, violently in many cases. At least Archie could be persuaded with sound logic, not so with liberals today.
For example would you consider someone like Archie Bunker a good or bad person. Personally I would think someone like Archie would be a good and decent individual. Even Meathead when saying farewell to Archie said "I Love You Archie". The point is that we all have short comings and faults but most of us are good and decent people inside. And you liberals should not be so quick to demonize folks.
This is a great post, I have not read the replies but I will after I respond. [EDIT: Didn't realize this is from FordTrucks. I'll send reps your way, we don't usually agree, but I appreciate the question, and even the way you posted it. Bravo!]
Archie is a good example, and my answer is that people are complicated. Think of humans as analogue, not digital. That is to say that they are not just good/bad (on/off, 1/0), but they have many different attributes. Archie was a bigot, but if you dug deep enough, he had a good heart. I think that is true of most people, regardless of their political affiliation. Obviously there are some really bad people out there, but just because someone has bad attributes doesn't make their entire existance bad.
As for the Trump supporters, much like Archie, I think they see the world through their own lenses, just like we all do. In their world (and there may be some justification, so I am not trying to be condescending), they have real reasons for their feelings. I don't think they hate people because they are brown, or female, or Muslim or whatever. I think they perceive them as a legitimate threat.
Conversely, don't think Liberals think big business is bad, or that all Muslims should be allowed to blindly enter the country, I think they see a threat from big business having too much power, and that Muslims are people, and should be vetted individually as such.
These are blanket statements, and blanket statements don't work. The point is that I think most people have a reasonable amount of balance. But when one person talks to another, and one is losing his job to quotas and affirmative action, and the other is having trouble getting a job because they did not have opportunity to gain higher education, and because their cultural differences are percieved as a weakness, that they are going to each approach the situation from their point of view.
Who is right or wrong? IMO, it's neither. They both have valid points. BOTH. We, as a society has to understand that we can't please all of the people, all of the time. There are winners and losers, and some will be left out. Again, it applies to all participants, weather poor or rich, individual or business, minority or majority or whatever.
There are no easy answers.
But to answer YOUR question, no, IMO a person having big flaws does not make them inherently a "bad person".
Just my opinion, and my approach to people and society...
In real life...meh -- a little more complicated. It would be rare to find that kind of person.
Respectfully disagree. I think that these people not only exist, but they are the norm. I find that if I dig into many of the people I detest the most, that if I dig deep enough, they come from a good place. There's a lot of factors that make a person who they are.
We are all biased. But, bias does not equal bigotry or racism.
Bias is simply a matter of personal (or collective) perspective. It is not necessarily a bad or evil thing.
I laugh at the morons who oppose the use of the word oriental because it illustrates Western Eurocentricity.
I wonder what perspective/bias these offended morons think Western Europeans should have, if not an occidental bias?
I laugh at these Western Progressive morons every time I see the Chinese use the terms oriental and occidental as descriptors.
Tell the Chinese that these terms (well, at least oriental) offend some people, and they at first look at you like you are mad and then laugh at the idiocy of it all.
Moreover, being biased with respect to others due to color or ethnicity is not bigotry and not necessarily racist, either.
Chinese people who grew up in the US aren't always fond of the term "oriental" to refer to people and not furnishings or inanimate objects, though.
Since that's the case, it's probably better not to use it.
No need to freak out over it, just better to skip it.
I did have a girl in one of my grad school classes try to tell me I couldn't use the word "oriental" at all and it amused me. My kids are half Chinese, and I was married into an Asian family for 10 years. She was whiter than me (and I'm pretty white) and clearly had taken a class in race relations recently or some such. LOL.
I told her "oriental" was a perfectly fine way to describe a wooden box.
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For example would you consider someone like Archie Bunker a good or bad person. Personally I would think someone like Archie would be a good and decent individual. Even Meathead when saying farewell to Archie said "I Love You Archie". The point is that we all have short comings and faults but most of us are good and decent people inside. And you liberals should not be so quick to demonize folks.
The creators of the show intended Archie to be a hated character. His repugnant views were meant to made him be disliked. He ended up being quite popular. He's also a fictional character.
Hindsight is always 20/20. Abraham Lincoln was a racist. He believed black people were genetically inferior. He also believed they should not have been made to be salves. Thomas Jefferson was racist. He did not have the personal conviction to oppose slavery, though it was a battle for him (the Declaration of Independence in an earlier draft mentioned the evils of slavery... it got cut out...) and did indeed own slaves. He also believed each generation was better than the last, feeling that one day Americans would end slavery and black people would have their own society, as the idea of a multiracial society in the eyes of Jefferson was just not possible. That made him quite progressive for his time.
And 'for his time' is important. It's quite likely that widely accepted viewpoints of today will be considered bigoted in a few generations. In this regard, of course a bigot can be a decent person. However, when you hold outdated views on race or sex or whatever... it's a little harder. Some bigots can be ok people, but there's a limit. How you treat others does affect who you are as a person, and yeah, maybe you and I as straight individuals can find the homophobic pastor to be quite generous to us but perhaps if we were gay, we'd have had a different experience?
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