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Old 07-23-2017, 11:01 AM
 
26,476 posts, read 15,060,677 times
Reputation: 14630

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Goodnight View Post
This is exactly what Russia wanted, I don't quite understand why Trump made this decision without any concessions from Syria or Russia. You can discuss all day how we got here and who is at fault but this makes absolutely no sense.
Yes, it makes no sense to stop arming ISIS and Al Qaeda in places like Syria, Libya, etc...

Who cares if Obama's weapons dispersal programs were a waste of tax payer money, prolonged a civil war meaning more civilian deaths, or are used by ISIS to collect sex slaves to rape.

The point is, that Obamas weapons for all program could have created another power vacuum for moderate terrorist rebels to fill and Trump is blocking that with the naïve notion that Assad is better than ISIS.

All thinking Americans, ISIS, and Al Qaeda long for the days of Barack Obama.

 
Old 07-23-2017, 07:12 PM
 
26,777 posts, read 22,529,485 times
Reputation: 10037
Quote:
Originally Posted by Goodnight View Post
This is exactly what Russia wanted, I don't quite understand why Trump made this decision without any concessions from Syria or Russia. You can discuss all day how we got here and who is at fault but this makes absolutely no sense.
Yes that's exactly "what Russia wanted."
Because Assad is Russia's ally.
Russians didn't say a word/didn't do a thing when Iraq went up in smoke, and so did Libya.
But Russians DO have their interests in Syria, hence this time around the regular scenario of "getting- rid- of horrible- dictator- and- replacing- him-with- *democratic- government*" isn't quite working.
With that being said, the only reason one would want to unseat Assad, is to give control of Syria to such "democratic allies" of the US as Saudi Arabia and Qatar in order to control the gas inflow to Europe.
Because THIS would mean that Europeans ( Germany first of all) would have to heed to American commands when they tell Europeans to "drop any ties with Russia." Because that pesky Putin is using the natural resources as a "political weapon of his choice." And Russia is not supposed to "use anything" in her own geopolitical interests - it supposed to choke and die long time ago already.
So this was the original plan under the democrats.
However Republicans ( with Trump at the helm) see things differently.
They are much more concerned with the forces that are unleashed in order to topple Russia - i.e. Islamic fundamentalism, and are much less concerned with Russia itself under the circumstances.
Which, quiet honestly makes much more sense.
 
Old 07-23-2017, 07:15 PM
 
79,914 posts, read 44,178,048 times
Reputation: 17209
Quote:
Originally Posted by erasure View Post
Yes that's exactly "what Russia wanted."
Because Assad is Russia's ally.
Russians didn't say a word/didn't do a thing when Iraq went up in smoke, and so did Libya.
But Russians DO have their interests in Syria, hence this time around the regular scenario of "getting- rid- of horrible- dictator- and- replacing- him-with- *democratic- government*" isn't quite working.
With that being said, the only reason one would want to unseat Assad, is to give control of Syria to such "democratic allies" of the US as Saudi Arabia and Qatar in order to control the gas inflow to Europe.
Because THIS would mean that Europeans ( Germany first of all) would have to heed to American commands when they tell Europeans to "drop any ties with Russia." Because that pesky Putin is using the natural resources as a "political weapon of his choice." And Russia is not supposed to "use anything" in her own geopolitical interests - it supposed to choke and die long time ago already.
So this was the original plan under the democrats.
However Republicans ( with Trump at the helm) see things differently.
They are much more concerned with the forces that are unleashed in order to topple Russia - i.e. Islamic fundamentalism, and are much less concerned with Russia itself under the circumstances.
Which, quiet honestly makes much more sense.
NO THEY DO NOT. You missed McCain's condemnation of these actions?
 
Old 07-23-2017, 07:50 PM
 
26,777 posts, read 22,529,485 times
Reputation: 10037
Quote:
Originally Posted by pknopp View Post
NO THEY DO NOT. You missed McCain's condemnation of these actions?
All right, I'll take it back.
SOME do and SOME don't.
As much as probably not ALL Democrats are unanimously agree on a number of things, the whole "Russia" thing including.

P.S. McCain of course is a war monger. (Whether he is a Republican or Democrat in this case is less important.) That's why he was all over the place in Ukraine during the coup d'etat.
 
Old 07-23-2017, 07:54 PM
 
79,914 posts, read 44,178,048 times
Reputation: 17209
Quote:
Originally Posted by erasure View Post
All right, I'll take it back.
SOME do and SOME don't.
As much as probably not ALL Democrats are unanimously agree on a number of things, the whole "Russia" thing including.

P.S. McCain of course is a war monger. (Whether he is a Republican or Democrat in this case is less important.) That's why he was all over the place in Ukraine during the coup d'etat.
Obama is unable to go into Syria to start with without the support of the GOP.
 
Old 07-23-2017, 07:58 PM
 
3,594 posts, read 1,792,561 times
Reputation: 4726
We should have never armed them in the first place. Besides the Kurds they're all sketchy! The majority are isis & al-queda & al-nusra linked groups. Once the rebels over throw Assad they will put in place an even worse government and use the arms we gave them against us and our allies.
 
Old 07-23-2017, 09:25 PM
 
26,476 posts, read 15,060,677 times
Reputation: 14630
Quote:
Originally Posted by pknopp View Post
Obama is unable to go into Syria to start with without the support of the GOP.
To be fair, Obama did military strikes without congressional approval.

And it was congress that blocked Obama from going further into Syria.

However, Congress did sign off on most of the weapons dispersal programs that Obama foolishly pushed.

Obama launches 2,800 strikes on Iraq, Syria without congressional approval - Washington Times

Congress and the media were so weak-handed with Obama. Obama rejected the legal views of both the top lawyer in his own DOJ and the Pentagon, ignored his own words on the matter as a candidate and Biden's to conduct military strikes that were illegal.

Obama gave congress and the Constitution two twin birds and the media largely looked the other way (because they are mostly partisan) while the "anti-war Democrats" pretended they were clueless and the Republicans tucked their tails.

A precedent is set...

Obama ignored top legal advice on Libya: report | Reuters
 
Old 07-23-2017, 11:46 PM
 
79,914 posts, read 44,178,048 times
Reputation: 17209
Quote:
Originally Posted by michiganmoon View Post
To be fair, Obama did military strikes without congressional approval.

And it was congress that blocked Obama from going further into Syria.
Always with the history revisionism. We went into Syria under Obama.

Quote:
However, Congress did sign off on most of the weapons dispersal programs that Obama foolishly pushed.

Obama launches 2,800 strikes on Iraq, Syria without congressional approval - Washington Times

Congress and the media were so weak-handed with Obama. Obama rejected the legal views of both the top lawyer in his own DOJ and the Pentagon, ignored his own words on the matter as a candidate and Biden's to conduct military strikes that were illegal.

Obama gave congress and the Constitution two twin birds and the media largely looked the other way (because they are mostly partisan) while the "anti-war Democrats" pretended they were clueless and the Republicans tucked their tails.

A precedent is set...

Obama ignored top legal advice on Libya: report | Reuters
They were not weak, they supported the actions overall. First it's bombs and arm the terrorists.

President Gains McCain

When that didn't work, it was send in the troops.

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/...ops-syria-iraq

They were wrong to start and then wrong again, and again, and again. They all deserve to rot in hell.
 
Old 07-24-2017, 12:40 AM
 
Location: Montgomery County, PA
16,569 posts, read 15,263,569 times
Reputation: 14590
Quote:
Originally Posted by TheCityTheBridge View Post


As I said, US war crimes do not excuse Russian and Syrian war crimes.
I assume by war crimes you mean the Aleppo campaign. Guess what? The war over Aleppo is over, or would you rather have the meat grinder slowly but surely continue today. Hiroshima was bombed to finish it once and for all. You do what you have to do.
 
Old 07-24-2017, 12:47 AM
 
79,914 posts, read 44,178,048 times
Reputation: 17209
Quote:
Originally Posted by HappyRider View Post
I assume by war crimes you mean the Aleppo campaign. Guess what? The war over Aleppo is over, or would you rather have the meat grinder slowly but surely continue today. Hiroshima was bombed to finish it once and for all. You do what you have to do.
Surely we won't continue to allow Assad do this to his people can we?

The Ron Paul Institute for Peace and Prosperity : Photos Of Aleppo Rising: Swimsuits, Concerts And Rebuilding In First Jihadi-Free Summer

Some more bombings should stop it.
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