Why railing against individual mandate is completely stupid (insurance, cost, elect)
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You equate govt not forcing you to buy their insurance, with not being able to access good health care at all?
Liberal alert.
Yes. And the fact that GOP failed three times amongst their own majority - each time with worse analysis of the outcomes - shows you that you can't do it with the conservative approach.
What is stupid.... Free people like you, allowing government to place them into bondage... willfully.
Where does forced, enter freedom & liberties?
So, again - you want the freedom for you or your family member to die of that heart attack? Be my guest. I on the other hand am happy to pay into a system that provides a common healthcare infrastructure.
Look, I've heard all the crap about how you don't want government to force you to buy insurance.
"This is AMERICA. I DEMAND the right NOT to be able to access good quality health care if I get a stroke! HUZZAH!"
Now let me explain to you why that is a stupid position to have.
Healthcare emergencies are of such a nature that they are (1) unpredictable and (2) EXTREMELY expensive. Unless you're a multi-millionaire, you can't afford the $200-$800K out of pocket that's required for that open heart surgery or cancer treatment.
This is why you have health insurance, with a POOL of policyholders who pay premiums. When you have an emergency, your costs are carried by (1) the premiums and deductibles you've put in, and (2) the premiums and deductibles of all the healthy people in your insurance pool. This is why you need healthy people in the game to cover for the sick - that's the only way the economics work. And most people who are not idiots understand that while they are healthy today, they could be the sick ones tomorrow; ergo, they are willing to pay into this coverage setup so that if they happen to have that medical emergency, they don't have to sell their home.
When you cut out the individual mandate, all you are doing is ensuring that fewer healthy people participate, which ensures that (1) more people are not covered when they have medical emergencies; (2) more people skip preventative care that could have reduced emergencies and instead get the most expensive care possible at ER, and (3) premiums for those with insurance are higher because the pools are composed of sicker people.
So you cannot have quality affordable care accessible by your citizenry if you don't level the playing field and force broad participation. This is also why nations with good healthcare systems invariably have their governments involved. This is also why nations with good healthcare systems don't have idiocies like tying health insurance to your employer, so that if you get downsized you can basically hang yourself if you get sick.
And here's the biggest irony of all: When you do away with the individual mandate and exercise your "freedom" not to have health insurance, what happens when you get a heart attack? You still show up at the ER, get treated, and your cost ends up basically 100% PASSED ON TO OTHERS. You're getting a free ride. How "conservative" a concept is that?
Lack of comprehension about the individual mandate is just one reason why conservatives will invariably fail at healthcare reform, even when they eventually get their act together and pass something. They can spin it however they want, but all GOP will ever do is reduce the number of people with good healthcare access and push up prices for those who are left in the market.
It still comes down to the fact that the government has no business forcing us citizens to buy a product from private corporations just because you are alive.
It doesn't matter if the excuse is "because it's for your own good".
Would you want a government forcing you to attend church because the majority of people felt it was for your own good?
And emergency rooms only treat to stabilize....you're not going to get a triple bypass for free by going to the emergency room......and you'll still get billed for the emergency service.
So....what good does it do to force people to buy health insurance with premiums and deductibles so high that they can't afford to actually use it?
When you get that huge bill from the ER, what's going to happen?
(1) You're either going to be put under severe hardship and go bankrupt or
(2) you're not going to be able to pay and will pass on the cost to others in the form of higher insurance premiums and taxes.
How is that as a system NOT stupid? How does it expand affordable quality healthcare that people can access? How is it fair to make me shoulder 100% of your cost because you put nothing into the system before your emergency but still expect treatment when you keel over?
Oh, and by the way, with insurance you might have been able to access earlier and preventative care so that we have fewer avoidable emergencies in ERs that cost the most.
This "everyone for themselves" approach that conservatives try to apply to healthcare is STUPID.
It still comes down to the fact that the government has no business forcing us citizens to buy a product from private corporations just because you are alive.
It doesn't matter if the excuse is "because it's for your own good".
Would you want a government forcing you to attend church because the majority of people felt it was for your own good?
Yep. Separation of church and state is a lesson people have largely learned...now on to separation of state and economics.
So, again - you want the freedom for you or your family member to die of that heart attack? Be my guest. I on the other hand am happy to pay into a system that provides a common healthcare infrastructure.
Feel free to do it without forcing everyone else into your scheme.
"If ye love wealth better than liberty, the tranquility of servitude better than the animating contest of freedom, go home from us in peace. We ask not your counsels or arms." - Sam Adams
One of the problems is you are making the young pay hundreds monthly for insurance that when they get sick is worthless to them anyway. They have to buy plans that have coverage that they will never need in the first place. They should be able to buy a catastrophic plan if they wish. Instead we are making them pay for garbage so the sick and elderly get cheaper insurance.
clearly you dont understand how insurance works.
the bigger the pool the more evenly the cost is spread both over the life of the buyer and across buyers.
It is the ultimate reduction of risk. You pay the average not the outlier.
Arguing about the quality of the ACA policies forced is just stupid. that is something that would have been fixed 4-7 years ago if not for the Mitch and the GOP blocking any and all fixes for ACA.
7 years of the GOP obstructing fixes to ACA has made it more costly than it should be and not allow the focus to shift on the cost as was planned.
THE GOP is responsible for most of our current problems with healthcare insurance. They have spent 7 years trying to make sure ACA does not become a success. they blocked any changes , they blocked funding and they obstructed at every level. If they had allowed a bunch of fixes you would have more options today , better prices and we would all be talking about how to drive down the cost of services , middlemen and drugs. Instead here we are arguing over policies
Location: Free State of Florida, Support our police
5,859 posts, read 3,294,652 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by evilcart
clearly you dont understand how insurance works.
the bigger the pool the more evenly the cost is spread both over the life of the buyer and across buyers.
It is the ultimate reduction of risk. You pay the average not the outlier.
Arguing about the quality of the ACA policies forced is just stupid. that is something that would have been fixed 4-7 years ago if not for the Mitch and the GOP blocking any and all fixes for ACA.
7 years of the GOP obstructing fixes to ACA has made it more costly than it should be and not allow the focus to shift on the cost as was planned.
THE GOP is responsible for most of our current problems with healthcare insurance. They have spent 7 years trying to make sure ACA does not become a success. they blocked any changes , they blocked funding and they obstructed at every level. If they had allowed a bunch of fixes you would have more options today , better prices and we would all be talking about how to drive down the cost of services , middlemen and drugs. Instead here we are arguing over policies
They want the young to pay into the system so the cost for the elderly and the sick is lower. So they force them to plans that they Don't need! You can say arguing against these insurance policies is stupid. I say its reality! BTW there should be no need for fixes. The democrats passed the bill they wanted. They got it through with zero Republican support. It should have been done correctly the first time. Instead Obama and the Democrats lied to the American people!
So, again - you want the freedom for you or your family member to die of that heart attack? Be my guest. I on the other hand am happy to pay into a system that provides a common healthcare infrastructure.
I damn sure don't need, or want you thinking and making choices for me!
I assume you don't need, or want me thinking and making choices for you?
Jesus OP. Just how many soap boxes *aka* threads do you require to get your health insurance rantings off your chest here?
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