Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
That is just it Kibby and Travelassie the negative things that came out about Hillary through Wikileaks and other sources were truthful and what many of us suspected.
I guess the constant trickle of negativity about her influenced some but it was nothing that we didn't already know and it was not fake news.
The Dems and Lefty media today are using the same tactics on Trump in regards to Russia despite top Dems like Pelosi saying there is nothing there the witch hunt goes on. If enough people say something long enough and loud enough then others will start to believe it.
It may be dirty but that is politics and that is campaigning.
We, well many of us did not need Russia to point out that the Clintons are crooked.
Another topic we talked about was the media. I believe they are biased and most outlets lean to the Left but our friends thought they were reliable and fair sources that speak the truth.
It is amazing how differently people view the world.
It is dangerous to talk politics with friends and family and we have actually lost both over opposing views (funny how it is the Liberals that blow up connections) but it is such a hot and interesting topic.
We did agree on one thing and that is if Trump does nothing his legacy will be that he got many people off their couches and paying attention if not involved in politics.
My wife and I had dinner with friends last night and even though we said we would not talk politics in the end we did. My wife and I are not Trumpers 100% but we did not like Hillary one bit.
Our friends Love Hillary and Hate Trump.
We had a good debate and of course the Russian thing came along.
Our friends think that there was no doubt that Russia influenced our election. I kept asking how and they talked in circles but what finally came out was that they believed Russia hacked Hillary's secret server and the DNC server where they stole personal Emails and they leaked them to the likes of Wikileaks.
Ok but what did they say and what did they do with them?
They said that it was the constant trickle of negative wikileaks that eroded support for Hillary and turned people to Trump.
I think many people saw Hillary for what she was. There is no doubt that she was very qualified to be President but she was also crooked and I didn't need a Russian prompting via Wikileaks to know that and I don't think others did either.
I think it is possible that Russia hacked the servers but giving that info to Wikileaks and others to undermine Hillary and the affects that had on her losing is a drop in the big bucket of reasons why she lost.
They also think that voting machines were hacked but it was the anti Hillary trickle campaign of lies that finished her.
Our friends had good points, I hope we are still friends... but I still think that most people who voted for Trump had already figured out Hillary without any prompting from anyone let alone Russia.
If they read some of your posts on this forum I wonder how long they would still remain your friends.
Everything provable one needs to know is out there.
Some of us are willfully ignorant.
Some of do not know what to believe.
Some of us think what we believe is fact.
IMO, what the Russians did is deep and wide. Makes me wonder what each side will think and do when the Russians decide they want a POTUS from the Democratic party.
I still find it odd that so many people in the Trump orbit have financial ties to the Russians.
Location: Born & Raised DC > Carolinas > Seattle > Denver
9,338 posts, read 7,122,541 times
Reputation: 9487
Quote:
Originally Posted by gladhands
I've never been friends with a republican. I'm typically drawn to decent, caring people.
I have republican friends. Not close friends, but people I've had over for dinner and to watch football. My mom's side of the family are all republicans as well, I love them dearly.
I'm a 35 year old progressive liberal and my best friend at work is a 50-something hardcore Trump supporter. We go out to lunch several times a week. I invited him over to my house last year to watch some football games. We're good friends, and we talk politics all the time but we keep it friendly and respectful.
I'm a very friendly and open-minded person. I enjoy positive, civil political discussions.
I'm only rude and obnoxious sometimes here on City-Data because many people here on City-Data are rude and obnoxious themselves. Fight fire with fire. What was it Melania Trump said herself? "When attacked, he (Trump) punches back 10 times harder." So when people go out of their way to be rude and nasty on here, why not be even ruder back to them?
I've never associated myself with any party and didn't vote for anyone in the Presidential election (and we should have won in a landslide). I tend to have the most in common with people who aren't ideologues, but I've cultivated frienships with a lot of different types of people.
Quote:
Originally Posted by gladhands
I'm typically drawn to decent, caring people.
And do you find these qualities best exemplified in leftist authoritarian central planning collectivist types?
I've read your posts, and I don't doubt this one bit.
You've obviously been in an echo chamber hearing only one point of view for a very long time.
I'm probably one of the few people on this board who has, in the last 12 months, spent quality time with crackheads and CEOs, with high school dropouts and college professors. I've lived everywhere from Boston, Massachusetts to Killeen, Texas. I've worked for fortune 500 companies, nonprofits and served in the US Army. I grew up in Harlem next to dope fiends, now a former US treasury secretary is one of my neighbors. Three weeks ago, I stood with my father-in-law on a rice paddy across from the unmarked graves of his parents. Tell me again about my bubble or echo chamber.
My wife and I had dinner with friends last night and even though we said we would not talk politics in the end we did. My wife and I are not Trumpers 100% but we did not like Hillary one bit.
Our friends Love Hillary and Hate Trump.
We had a good debate and of course the Russian thing came along.
Our friends think that there was no doubt that Russia influenced our election. I kept asking how and they talked in circles but what finally came out was that they believed Russia hacked Hillary's secret server and the DNC server where they stole personal Emails and they leaked them to the likes of Wikileaks.
Ok but what did they say and what did they do with them?
They said that it was the constant trickle of negative wikileaks that eroded support for Hillary and turned people to Trump.
I think many people saw Hillary for what she was. There is no doubt that she was very qualified to be President but she was also crooked and I didn't need a Russian prompting via Wikileaks to know that and I don't think others did either.
I think it is possible that Russia hacked the servers but giving that info to Wikileaks and others to undermine Hillary and the affects that had on her losing is a drop in the big bucket of reasons why she lost.
They also think that voting machines were hacked but it was the anti Hillary trickle campaign of lies that finished her.
Our friends had good points, I hope we are still friends... but I still think that most people who voted for Trump had already figured out Hillary without any prompting from anyone let alone Russia.
I watched the president's voting panel last night on C-Span. Voting machines are not even hooked to the internet. The Democratic Party is off the wall with their accusations. Next group on C-Span were the Democrats telling lies with each speaker stretching the truth worse than the last speaker. The first words out of their mouth was a lie saying the panel met behind closed doors so I couldn't see what I had just watched.
And you are right about Hillary. I voted for Clinton and I thought they were being unfairly hounded until the death of Vince Foster. Most people who kill themselves don't do it in a parking lot. He had been a professor in a local college and people who had known him there did not believe he would ever have killed himself or that is what was reported in our local newspaper. I started looking more critically and boy the body count is increasing. They also said Vince Foster was honest and would not be a party to anything illegal or underhanded.
Talking about politics is fun, but it is only one subject out of many that groups of people can discuss. People that have political litmus tests for others tend to be (1) extreme and (2) overly simplistic in their views.
If your (the general term) world view is so fragile that someone refusing to see things your way on matters of national/global policy is cause for anger, odds are that you're wrong. However, if you accept that you don't know everything, you're unlikely to convert others, and others are unlikely to convert you, odds are that you can agree to disagree on matters of politics with just about anyone and move on to other subjects.
I was born in 1985 and I have friends who are in their 60 and 70s (I met them in VA hospital ); I also have friends from ALL racial backgrounds. We might not agree with each other all the time, but we have several things in common. A. we apologize if we are wrong B. we try to put ourselves in other people's shoes C. we understand we are not know-it-alls. There are a lot of things in the world we simply don't know. D. Every American voter took a risk on election day. So there is no reason to hate somebody simply because they voted Trump or Hillary.
I may not disagree with your views on any of the aforementioned, but as long as you are logical and respectful, why would there be a problem? Plus, we don't owe our loyalty to the government, government officials, or even the people, it is to the constitution.
All these said, I also think your friend got a point. I believe Putin would have tried to interfere in our election regardless of who the candidates were. I believe this, because he is doing this in so many other countries. he wants to compromise democracies and wants to restore Russia to what he views as their former glory.
I think many people saw Hillary for what she was. There is no doubt that she was very qualified to be President but she was also crooked and I didn't need a Russian prompting via Wikileaks to know that and I don't think others did either.
Civil debate here, I hope, but here is what I don't understand about the Trump supporters, maybe you can help me out.
Let's assume you are correct, and Hillary is "crooked, and we don't need Russia to help us understand that" (paraphrased). I don't necessarily agree or disagree with that, it's subjective, but your opinion is as valid as mine.
So if the basis for your vote is not to vote for someone who is "crooked", how do you justify your vote for Trump? Serious question, because as I see it, if you are voting against curruption, Trump is not your man. If you are voting against cronyism, Trump is not your man, and if you are tired of the Elites having all the control, and them sticking it to the ever-dwindling middle class, then Trump is not your man.
So, if I grant your points on Hillary, then can you help me understand how Trump is a better choice?
Serious question, and I mean for a civil discussion. Thank you in advance.
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.
Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
