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Then if you don't know what the final costs will be why project? We do know for a fact though that illegal aliens cost us $113 billion every single year. Just how far off in costs would the wall project have to be to be more than that? I'm only talking about the 700 miles of good wall on the most porous areas of our border already approved by congress back in 2006 not the entire border. Those types of walls have been proven to be very effective. So if it doesn't stop illegal immigration 100% then it's not worth it?
Sure, hold the companies that hire them accountable. I'm all for that and e-verify. But unless we deny their kids birthright citizenship and benefits also that alone won't do it. Besides, criminals and terrorists aren't looking for work, thus the wall.
Oh man this is giving me some real gun control deja vu. I wouldn't mind building a wall for $25B, and just call it a housekeeping cost. But Trump's projection has nearly doubled already, from $12b to $21b, so I wouldn't be surprised if the cost does end up much higher. It's just a huge project, so not hard to imagine that happening.
I welcome California refugees to Arizona. Come on over, and get a taste of freedom!
You'll love it!
That shoebox you live in and can't afford will now become a 4 bedroom house you can easily afford.
Mello roos = Mello who?
What's under that bridge? A homeless colony? No silly, you're in Arizona now, that's just a construction crew.
Wow, you'll say, I traveled across town in 30 min's. Yep!
Is that an earthquake? Nope
You'll say new things like "I got a new car" or "I put a pool in my big backyard"
All of these things will easily convince you at the voting booth. I doubt after a year here you'll feel like turning Arizona into California. Trust me. You'll think more than twice.
Middle class families make around 70,000 a year in CA and AZ. Do the math. You'll live like a spoiled brat on 70 tho in AZ. You'll barely live in CA on that.
Come on over and taste the red state, you'll be converted in no time. You'll get scared at the thought of a democrat winning, you'll remember where you came from. lol "Oh gosh NO!!"
"Don't vote Dem!!" you'll tell your wife or husband. "Don't you remember CA?" ha ha
Come on over, I ain't scared!
I'll pass AZ is too long a drive to see the ocean no worries I won't give up the coastline for a dried up burnt desert.
What's funny is that some people who advocate for open borders lives in gated communities or have their property fenced off.
exactly, you see that alot in third world countries. When I was in brazil you see bars on the windows and these were middle class homes . Approximately 40% of new homes in California were behind walls in the early 2000's. I am sure it probably not that different in florida, texas etc. today. You see these communities all over in florida
Just look at how where people live to see how and where they send their kids to school to really see a persons real feelings on multicultalism immigration and race. Less than 14% of LAs public schools are white and segregation is the worst in the country in California schools.
Its bad in so many so called liberal progressive cities, boston public schools are 13 % white, around 5% white in DC , NYC is less than 10% and also one of the most segregated in the country.
Where people send their kids to school really shows the hypocrisy of liberals and all their talk of "diversity"
What's funny is that some people who advocate for open borders lives in gated communities or have their property fenced off.
What's funny is that people who claim to think they're freedom loving conservatives or even more comically libertarians think that we should construct a wall in order to impede upon the spread of political speech.
Should we forgo a free press for state run media? Perhaps get rid of the courts and let the president decide who is and isn't guilty? And why have votes? It would be SOOO much more stable to have a single president for life instead having to deal with changes. Right?
Then if you don't know what the final costs will be why project? We do know for a fact though that illegal aliens cost us $113 billion every single year. Just how far off in costs would the wall project have to be to be more than that? I'm only talking about the 700 miles of good wall on the most porous areas of our border already approved by congress back in 2006 not the entire border. Those types of walls have been proven to be very effective. So if it doesn't stop illegal immigration 100% then it's not worth it?
Sure, hold the companies that hire them accountable. I'm all for that and e-verify. But unless we deny their kids birthright citizenship and benefits also that alone won't do it. Besides, criminals and terrorists aren't looking for work, thus the wall.
No, I'm saying the costs vs. what it'll actually accomplish do not justify its construction to me. It's not a complicated argument, please follow along and don't misrepresent it.
It will not fully solve the illegal immigration problem.
I think we could get to the same place with much cheaper alternatives that don't require a wall that is very likely to come in way over budget (like almost every single large infrastructure project, especially contentious ones that undergo a lot of litigation (This thing is gonna be litigated to hell - you can count on that!!!)).
What cheaper alternatives? A couple:
Better security at the border (more personnel, more technology, especially dynamic technologies that can easily be swapped out/replaced when new versions come along)
Holding companies that hire illegal immigrants accountable. And I mean actually holding them accountable - institute SEVERE penalties (such as severe amounts of fines to be payed, or even jail time) for hiring illegal immigrants - try it, watch how many illegal immigrants can get work here. And when they can't, watch them leave as there are no opportunities for them here.
Let's also not touch on the fact that Trump FALSELY sold the American people on a wall that someone else was gonna pay for (i.e. Mexico). Talk about a giant LOL...if it happens (which I doubt it will), we, the American people, will be paying for this stupid boondoggle.
Con man.
Last edited by HockeyMac18; 07-24-2017 at 03:58 PM..
No, I'm saying the costs vs. what it'll actually accomplish do not justify its construction to me. It's not a complicated argument, please follow along and don't misrepresent it.
It will not fully solve the illegal immigration problem (why? well, because a lot of illegal immigrants don't come across the border illegally!). I think we could get to the same place with much cheaper alternatives that don't require a wall that is very likely to come in way over budget (like almost every single large infrastructure project, especially contentious ones like that this undergo a lot of litigation (This thing is gonna be litigated to hell - you can count on that)).
What cheaper alternatives? Better security at the border (more personnel, more technology, especially dynamic technologies that can easily be swapped out/replaced when new versions come along), AND holding companies that hire illegal immigrants accountable. And I mean actually holding them accountable - institute SEVERE penalties (such as severe amounts of fines to be payed, or even jail time) for hiring illegal immigrants - try it, watch how many illegal immigrants can get work here.
Let's also not touch on the fact that Trump FALSELY sold the American people on a wall that someone else was gonna build. Talk about a giant LOL...if it happens (which I doubt it will), we, the American people, will be paying that for stupid boondoggle. Con man.
Again, you are just projecting your own views on what it will cost. What makes you the expert? The estimates are at most $25 billion to build. I even compared the costs of illegal immigration every single year and yet you still persist. You're the one not following along. There is no way that the wall will cost more than illegal aliens do.
Who said the wall will fully solve the illegal immigration problem but it will go a long ways in deterring illegal entry. I already said that in my last post. Of course it won't end the visa over stayer problem and no one has said that it will. That problem can't be addressed with a wall, duh. It has to be addressed in a different way and should be.
We need more man power at the border along with the wall. A physical barrier helps them do their jobs more effectively. With a wall on the most porous areas of the border the BP can focus on the more dangerous and difficult areas to cross. Technology will also decrease illegal entry. We need to pull out all the stops to stop this madness at our southern border.
Why do you keep repeating yourself over and over/ I already agreed that we need to go after the employers and implement e-verify. But as I said unless we deny their kids birthright citizenship and benefits denying them jobs won't do it all alone. Why do I have to keep repeating that to you?
Mexico will end up contributing to the wall in the long run. Just because they refuse to fork it over up front doesn't mean a thing. Even if we have to pay for this wall ourselves I'm all for it rather than continuing to pay $113 billion a year for illegal aliens and terrorists and criminals continuing to enter thru our southern border. See I didn't fail at math. I know which one is cheaper.
Now unless you have something new to add then don't bother replying to me anymore. If there's one thing I can't stand is debating with a parrot that ignores what I have already stated. Seems to me you are just using this topic to bash Trump because you don't like him. He's already received bids on the wall and prototypes are being built. I'm sure you're crying about that. If you're not an illegal alien supporter then you'd support the wall. I have heard every argument in the book for not building the wall and it's nearly always by that type of person.
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Of course it won't end the visa over stayer problem and no one has said that it will. That problem can't be addressed with a wall, duh. It has to be addressed in a different way and should be.
