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They're not though. Money and love are nowhere near the same.
Money is a tool. It's simply stored valued that hasn't been spent. I use it as a tool. Most of what I earn goes right back into the tool chest.
I work because of how I value/the level of self-respect I have for myself. I work because I have a need to build upon whatever I had the day before (not material goods, I build companies. expanding them is my drive).
Having money just comes along with that. I don't need money. I know how to go out and earn a bunch of money if need be.
I don't need money like I need love though. I have no emotional connection to money. I'm not going to tell you money doesn't equate to happiness, because it does, but its nowhere near the same.
I guess maybe you are saying everyone could and should be like you. They would build things because they like to, without needing any reward. Then the society would just take care of everyone. Each person would do what they can, and the state would provide them with what they need. Marx said "From each according to his ability, to each according to his need."
Marx thought that could work. There is no evidence that it could work, and any time it was tried it went haywire.
Star Trek is a fantasy, and Marx's theories were fantasies.
I guess maybe you are saying everyone could and should be like you. They would build things because they like to, without needing any reward. Then the society would just take care of everyone. Each person would do what they can, and the state would provide them with what they need. Marx said "From each according to his ability, to each according to his need."
Marx thought that could work. There is no evidence that it could work, and any time it was tried it went haywire.
Star Trek is a fantasy, and Marx's theories were fantasies.
Star Trek takes place in a society of abundance. We have money because we live on a world with scarcity. Take away the scaracity, money no longer matters. Money is a way of regulating that scarcity.
I do feel we as a society have lost a large amount of self respect for ourselves. Just look at raising obesity rates, increased partisanship, loss of personal accountability, the way we dress (you'll never find me out in public in my pajamas), etc. We are still the land of opportunity, I feel fewer and fewer people chase that opportunity.
Society doesn't need to take care of you if you build something. Your accomplishments take care of you. Your need to tie my views foolishly to Marxism only outline your lack of understanding of Socialism. Socialism has been a staple of this country for a long time. Your fire station/police station is socialism. Your roads are socialism. Your public schools are socialism. for the record, pure Marxism has never been tried in this world.
Yea, the country would be better with more people like me. At the same time though, I don't care for money as it's so easy to make because they're not. If my competition increased and my margins decreased then I'd probably have a shift, though i still would not value money like love. Money is easy to make, love is not necessarily easy to find.
Star Trek takes place in a society of abundance. We have money because we live on a world with scarcity. Take away the scaracity, money no longer matters. Money is a way of regulating that scarcity.
I do feel we as a society have lost a large amount of self respect for ourselves. Just look at raising obesity rates, increased partisanship, loss of personal accountability, the way we dress (you'll never find me out in public in my pajamas), etc. We are still the land of opportunity, I feel fewer and fewer people chase that opportunity.
Society doesn't need to take care of you if you build something. Your accomplishments take care of you. Your need to tie my views foolishly to Marxism only outline your lack of understanding of Socialism. Socialism has been a staple of this country for a long time. Your fire station/police station is socialism. Your roads are socialism. Your public schools are socialism. for the record, pure Marxism has never been tried in this world.
So ... if only PURE Marxism was tried, it would have worked? Because Marx had such a brilliant mind he envisioned exactly how society should be? But no one has been smart enough to follow his plan exactly???
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Originally Posted by LordSquidworth
Yea, the country would be better with more people like me. At the same time though, I don't care for money as it's so easy to make because they're not. If my competition increased and my margins decreased then I'd probably have a shift, though i still would not value money like love. Money is easy to make, love is not necessarily easy to find.
You assume everyone is just like you. Lots of people find love more easily than they make money.
No one has a definition of love that everyone could agree with. But if you try to abstract away the central meaning of the word "love," it is very close to the meaning of "value."
We are drawn towards things we love. The concept of love means being drawn towards. We are repelled by things we hate. This is positive and negative value.
I am trying to define these words in a technical way, disregarding romance and sentimentality.
Think of it as being attracted or repelled. You want something, or you don't want something. This can be a person, or any kind of thing.
By definition, money is what we want. Forget about all the cultural associations with the word "money." Just think about what it really is. It is a way for us to get what we want (and/or need).
If you were a single person and wanted someone to marry, how would you go about finding someone? You would make yourself attractive. How? By showing off what is positive and valuable about yourself. Women wear makeup and nice clothes, men drive luxury cars. Whatever, you get the basic idea.
Money and love are so closely related, as to be almost the same concept.
Again, this is looking at it from a technical, or scientific, perspective. Leave out all the romance and sentimentality.
One more example: Money is often blamed for all kinds of misery -- murder, ruthlessness, etc. Have you considered that LOVE is, just as often, the cause of all sorts of misery?
Ha-ha, now we are talking.
In my understanding it's not "money" per se that bring "all kinds of misery," but the fact that MONEY rule the world all together. Money, instead of "love," whatever that might be. So basically "material" vs "spiritual."
If you look at things this way, then everything falls into right places. The "value" you are talking about is of rational nature; "love" is not. That's why "man driving luxury car" might not necessarily get "love" of the woman he wants. ( He might still MARRY the woman he wants, but getting her *LOVE* is a whole different story. She might be still in *love* with her former classmate, a "bad boy" with guitar and not much money, or that mail man that brings the letters to their door every morning. Who knows.)
And same goes for women. Just because her parents can buy her all the wonderful clothes when she is young, does not necessarily mean that she will get the *love* of that particular young man she is hoping for.
So see? "Love" and "value" is not one and the same thing, and LOVE obviously causes "all sorts of misery")))
Ha-ha, now we are talking.
In my understanding it's not "money" per se that bring "all kinds of misery," but the fact that MONEY rule the world all together. Money, instead of "love," whatever that might be. So basically "material" vs "spiritual."
If you look at things this way, then everything falls into right places. The "value" you are talking about is of rational nature; "love" is not. That's why "man driving luxury car" might not necessarily get "love" of the woman he wants. ( He might still MARRY the woman he wants, but getting her *LOVE* is a whole different story. She might be still in *love* with her former classmate, a "bad boy" with guitar and not much money, or that mail man that brings the letters to their door every morning. Who knows.)
And same goes for women. Just because her parents can buy her all the wonderful clothes when she is young, does not necessarily mean that she will get the *love* of that particular young man she is hoping for.
So see? "Love" and "value" is not one and the same thing, and LOVE obviously cause "all sorts of misery")))
You are talking about romantic love. I meant love more generally. We can love any kind of thing, a pair of shoes, a work of art, a flavor of ice cream.
Romantic love isn't really different, just more complicated.
Bartering is not practical, and that's why we mostly use symbols (money) instead.
While that's true the first banks and the "money" they issued were to protect gold from theft. The Knights Templar issued script in exchange for gold that would be redeemed when you reached a safe destination.
You are talking about romantic love. I meant love more generally. We can love any kind of thing, a pair of shoes, a work of art, a flavor of ice cream.
Romantic love isn't really different, just more complicated.
Technically speaking, the word that should be used in these cases is " to like," not " to love."
There is no way you can ascribe the same kind of feeling you experience towards your "significant other" to a "flavor of ice cream."
Even if it's coffee flavor)))
No way)))
Star Trek takes place in a society of abundance. We have money because we live on a world with scarcity. Take away the scaracity, money no longer matters. Money is a way of regulating that scarcity.
I agree with that part.
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I do feel we as a society have lost a large amount of self respect for ourselves. Just look at raising obesity rates, increased partisanship, loss of personal accountability, the way we dress (you'll never find me out in public in my pajamas), etc. We are still the land of opportunity, I feel fewer and fewer people chase that opportunity.
There are good reasons for that. *People* know that the field is not as leveled as it used to be.
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Society doesn't need to take care of you if you build something. Your accomplishments take care of you.
Society doesn't need to take care of you if you are coming from a wealthy family. Then your "accomplishments" are practically guaranteed ( unless you STILL manage to screw things up big time somehow))) )
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Your need to tie my views foolishly to Marxism only outline your lack of understanding of Socialism. Socialism has been a staple of this country for a long time. Your fire station/police station is socialism. Your roads are socialism. Your public schools are socialism.
Let's look up here the definition of Socialism...
so·cial·ism
ˈsōSHəˌlizəm/Submit
noun
a political and economic theory of social organization that advocates that the means of production, distribution, and exchange should be owned or regulated by the community as a whole.
So "means of production owned by community," not "roads" and "public schools" - nope.
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for the record, pure Marxism has never been tried in this world.
Hmm... let's look up what "Marxism" is - "pure" or otherwise)))
"Marxism is a form of socioeconomic analysis that analyses class relations and societal conflict using a materialist interpretation of historical development and a dialectical view of social transformation. It originates from the mid-to-late 19th century works of German philosophers Karl Marx and Friedrich Engels.....
....The haute bourgeoisie and its managerial proxies are unable to manage the intensifying alienation of labor which the proletariat experiences, albeit with varying degrees of class consciousness, until social revolution ultimately results. The eventual long-term outcome of this revolution would be the establishment of socialism – a socioeconomic system based on social ownership of the means of production, distribution based on one's contribution, and production organized directly for use. "
Bingo. That's what Soviet Union had. They had SOCIALISM, and never COMMUNISM ( which, according to Marx, was supposed to be the NEXT stage after Socialism.)
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Yea, the country would be better with more people like me. At the same time though, I don't care for money as it's so easy to make because they're not. If my competition increased and my margins decreased then I'd probably have a shift, though i still would not value money like love. Money is easy to make, love is not necessarily easy to find.
It's nice when people understand that the value of "spiritual" is higher than value of "material," but to be honest, I have my own reservations now when it comes to the US and the whole "left wing" of thought...
Star Trek takes place in a society of abundance.
...
I do feel we as a society have lost a large amount of self respect for ourselves. Just look at raising obesity rates,
...
(you'll never find me out in public in my pajamas),
...
Yea, the country would be better with more people like me.
Money is supposed to be an easy way to exchange goods and services; however, the government constantly corrupts it through manipulation.
Government manipulation of currency tends to harm the working poor the worst followed by the middle class.
^^Yes, this.
Thomas Jefferson had it right:
"I believe that banking institutions are more dangerous to our liberties than standing armies," Jefferson wrote. " If the American people ever allow private banks to control the issue of their currency, first by inflation, then by deflation, the banks and corporations that will grow up around(these banks) will deprive the people of all property until their children wake up homeless on the continent their fathers conquered."
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