Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
If government is unnatural, then how do you explain the fact that every civilization of mankind has had a government? I think the debate is whether the government should be big (liberalism) or small (conservatism). Throughout human history, the governments that have restrained their overspending and over-reach have faired better than those that didn't. Civilizations collapse after a period of reckless spending and complexity.
If one really did examine nature, one would realize that humans' evolutionary ascendancy is a direct result of collaboration.
None of us can always be sure what is real vs what is fantasy. However, sometimes we can be sure, and sometimes we can guess pretty accurately.
I try to determine what is real by observing nature. In nature, things tend to stay in balance. If a species becomes over-populated, some will starve, or predators will increase. Animals defend their territories, so everything has adequate space.
And nature always looks clean. Everything is quickly recycled.
And nature is cruel. And often unfair. The cute bunny gets eaten by the wolf.
In my opinion, liberals/progressives are appalled by the way nature works, and desperately want to transcend and overcome it.
Conservatives, on the other hand, are more likely to be realistic and accepting of how nature works.
I am not saying conservatives are wonderful in all ways. Just that they seem more in touch with reality.
Progressives constantly have a fantasy in their mind (conscious or not) saying this world could be Happy Hippie Heaven. And the world falls short of their fantasy, which causes them to be constantly ANGRY, if not ENRAGED.
The conservatives acknowledge the world is not always how we might want it to be. But they also realize they DO NOT HAVE A BETTER IDEA.
I am not talking about extreme libertarians who I think are completely irrational. I just mean moderate conservatives who accept that capitalism is not utopia, but oh well that is life.
You gave no examples. Just accusations that we're all supposed to accept as fact.
I find that suspicious.
So... enlighten us. Explain why conservatives "believe in nature" and progressives, whom you apply all oppose capitalism (which is not true), do not.
You gave no examples. Just accusations that we're all supposed to accept as fact.
I find that suspicious.
So... enlighten us. Explain why conservatives "believe in nature" and progressives, whom you apply all oppose capitalism (which is not true), do not.
I did not say anything that simple and black and white. But there is a tendency for conservatives to be more accepting of nature. For example, liberals these days always seem to oppose funding the military. It's like they think problems can generally be solved by talking.
But force, violence, is an essential aspect of nature, and conservatives seem to acknowledge that.
Marx blamed war on religion. Just abolish religion and the world becomes a Happy Hippie Heaven, as described in Lennon's song Imagine.
But violence is a natural result of over-crowding. In non-human nature, populations stay in balance with their environments. Humans found ways to outsmart nature and grow surplus food, therefore becoming overcrowded and violent.
I'm not saying conservatives see war in that way. But they do see defense as necessary. Liberals seem not to.
Also, conservatives seem more aware of the essential nastiness of human nature. Not that we are all bad, just that nastiness is part of every creature. Every creature has the instinct to defend itself and its social group. Every creature will turn nasty when threatened -- that is necessary self-defense.
Liberals have the idea that humans are essentially ALL GOOD, and only become corrupted by their non-liberal society. If everyone were educated correctly, there would be no nastiness.
The song Imagine pretty well expresses the delusional liberal fantasy world.
Also, conservatives seem more aware of the essential nastiness of human nature. Not that we are all bad, just that nastiness is part of every creature. Every creature has the instinct to defend itself and its social group. Every creature will turn nasty when threatened -- that is necessary self-defense.
Liberals have the idea that humans are essentially ALL GOOD, and only become corrupted by their non-liberal society. If everyone were educated correctly, there would be no nastiness.
The song Imagine pretty well expresses the delusional liberal fantasy world.
You are contradicting yourself.
Quote:
Not that we are all bad, just that nastiness is part of every creature.
If people are not all bad then they must have some good in them, no?
Quote:
Liberals have the idea that humans are essentially ALL GOOD
If humans are "essentially ALL GOOD" then there must be some "nastiness," no?
Liberals AND conservatives both have elements of good and "nasty." (hate the way you use that word) We are human and we ALL have both qualities, as well as many, many others. What I think that you are trying to convey is that people of both ideologies have some preconceived notions of what the other believes and IMHO they are both wrong and both right.
Anyone that thinks we are not all rooted in "goodness" is grossly misinformed. Anyone that believes that we are all not capable of mistrust and deceptiveness is just as grossly ill informed.
I submit that if anyone sees people in either fashion they do not encircle themselves with well rounded individuals and education is a vital part of that. However, it need not be a scholastic education. There is much to be learned from life experiences. When one lives many types of experiences there is knowledge to be gained that can not be learned in a classroom or at a seminar.
There is no difference in the end goal. There is peace through strength and peace via negotiation. It is wise to have and arsenal where both can be pulled and utilized when needed. Please note this does not necessarily only pertain to world peace. It could be applicable to one's personal life, work life or social live. But, again, this speaks to being well rounded.
The need to demonize people that live their lives differently or think differently than we do is not healthy, nor does it promote unity. It only serves to divide.
I am grateful that I have a circle of well rounded friends, some conservative and some quite liberal. Most have advanced degrees, a few a high school education only and some a GED. All of them have common sense. All of them dream and all of them deal with reality not fantasy. They all dare to IMAGINE. It's easy if you try and, try we must.
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.
Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
