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None of us can always be sure what is real vs what is fantasy. However, sometimes we can be sure, and sometimes we can guess pretty accurately.
I try to determine what is real by observing nature. In nature, things tend to stay in balance. If a species becomes over-populated, some will starve, or predators will increase. Animals defend their territories, so everything has adequate space.
And nature always looks clean. Everything is quickly recycled.
And nature is cruel. And often unfair. The cute bunny gets eaten by the wolf.
In my opinion, liberals/progressives are appalled by the way nature works, and desperately want to transcend and overcome it.
Conservatives, on the other hand, are more likely to be realistic and accepting of how nature works.
I am not saying conservatives are wonderful in all ways. Just that they seem more in touch with reality.
Progressives constantly have a fantasy in their mind (conscious or not) saying this world could be Happy Hippie Heaven. And the world falls short of their fantasy, which causes them to be constantly ANGRY, if not ENRAGED.
The conservatives acknowledge the world is not always how we might want it to be. But they also realize they DO NOT HAVE A BETTER IDEA.
I am not talking about extreme libertarians who I think are completely irrational. I just mean moderate conservatives who accept that capitalism is not utopia, but oh well that is life.
Thinking we don't need laws or government is extreme and irrational.
Those are the two foundational principles of the libertarian philosophy, and everything stems logically from those principles, so I'd say yes. I suppose there are many people who identify as libertarian who aren't fully consistent with those principles, but that's what libertarianism is about.
Funny that you say it's irrational when it's literally the only fully rational political (or anti-political) philosophy. That's the entire reason I am an "extreme" libertarian. The belief in government is inherently contradictory by it's very nature, and therefore irrational. It's a superstition.
To answer the OP, I don't agree with a lot of leftist thought, and it is utopian to think that imposing a centralized plan on everyone by force will lead to everyone's happiness, but at the same time I think humans are unique in the way they can use reason, and should be held to a higher standard than a plant or animal that has no self-awareness or reasoning skills.
We are the first species to actually consider morality, and learn self-control, wisdom, etc...we've learned over time to essentially follow the golden rule. Treat others the way we want to be treated, don't attack them, don't steal from them, don't violate their individual rights if they haven't done anything to you (still learning that one).
Basically, I don't believe compassion is the highest value of all as liberals seem to believe through their actions and comments, but I do believe in individual human liberty and respecting every single person's inherent rights. Not the law of the jungle, but a society that respects the individual.
If government is unnatural, then how do you explain the fact that every civilization of mankind has had a government? I think the debate is whether the government should be big (liberalism) or small (conservatism). Throughout human history, the governments that have restrained their overspending and over-reach have faired better than those that didn't. Civilizations collapse after a period of reckless spending and complexity.
Those are the two foundational principles of the libertarian philosophy, and everything stems logically from those principles, so I'd say yes. I suppose there are many people who identify as libertarian who aren't fully consistent with those principles, but that's what libertarianism is about.
Funny that you say it's irrational when it's literally the only fully rational political (or anti-political) philosophy. That's the entire reason I am an "extreme" libertarian. The belief in government is inherently contradictory by it's very nature, and therefore irrational. It's a superstition.
We need laws and law enforcement. This is so obvious no one should have to explain it to libertarians.
Every human society, from the most primitive to the most advanced, had laws. Animal societies follow laws also. The whole universe follows laws.
Authoritarian governments, on the other hand, are not universal. Maybe that's what the libertarians mean by government. I really don't know what they mean. They are as much in a fantasy world as extreme socialists.
We need laws and law enforcement. This is so obvious no one should have to explain it to libertarians.
Every human society, from the most primitive to the most advanced, had laws. Animal societies follow laws also. The whole universe follows laws.
Authoritarian governments, on the other hand, are not universal. Maybe that's what the libertarians mean by government. I really don't know what they mean. They are as much in a fantasy world as extreme socialists.
I think there is a little bit of misunderstanding with definitions here. We don't need laws or law enforcers, as in rules made up by politicians and people hired to blindly enforce those rules on everyone. We do need societal rules, sure, and everyone has the same right to enforce them. No special "authority" or "right to rule" needed, which is what the state is - the person or group with the right to rule over everyone within a given territory.
A libertarian who believes in the libertarian philosophy would say that the fundamental societal rule should be "it's wrong to initiate force against innocent people". You can use force to defend yourself and your property (or other innocent people and their property), but it's wrong to be the INITIATOR of force. Another way I think if it is that rules should be enforced defensively rather than offensively. Ex: You should be allowed to fight off an attacker or thief, but not allowed to personally, or by way of the state, take what belongs to your neighbor or threaten them when they've harmed no one.
If government is unnatural, then how do you explain the fact that every civilization of mankind has had a government? I think the debate is whether the government should be big (liberalism) or small (conservatism). Throughout human history, the governments that have restrained their overspending and over-reach have faired better than those that didn't. Civilizations collapse after a period of reckless spending and complexity.
You could make that argument with slavery too. It always existed, but it doesn't follow that it therefore must exist. People actually used to say slavery was a natural and inevitable part of life, and it seemed that way purely based on precedent.
I think governments of some sort may always exist, but I use the term "state" to differentiate between a voluntary and involuntary government. I'm fine with a government where every individual has actively consented and entered into an agreement to be subject to it, maybe like a homeowner's association. What I don't agree with and what could potentially cease to exist if enough people condemn it, is a group that imposes rules and taxes on everyone in a geographic area, regardless of whether they want to be a part of it or not.
Well, if we wanted to be natural, we could go back to living in huts in the jungle, living in tribes off the land, and fighting each other with spears and arrows. Whenever somebody gets a bacterial infection, there is no antibiotics to be had. Just call the village witchdoctor to work his magic. Does that sound good? I thought not.
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