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Are we going "backwards" to an 1800's-style 99% poor/1% rich society??
Another pointless thread sponsored by the people who line up at the government hog-trough and stuff their faces full of government benefits while whining that the middle class is disappearing.
The middle class will be fine if the dependent class takes some initiative and takes steps to actually do work that is worth something.
Another pointless thread sponsored by the people who line up at the government hog-trough and stuff their faces full of government benefits while whining that the middle class is disappearing.
The middle class will be fine if the dependent class takes some initiative and takes steps to actually do work that is worth something.
I don't think that 50 year old coal miners are going to become robotics engineers.
Another pointless thread sponsored by the people who line up at the government hog-trough and stuff their faces full of government benefits while whining that the middle class is disappearing.
The middle class will be fine if the dependent class takes some initiative and takes steps to actually do work that is worth something.
You do realize that if people have no money (due to unreasonably high COL, high insurance bills, high student loans, high rents, etc), they don't spend any money, right?
It's just like i said, once a large enough % of the population has no money/is broke the whole "system" grinds to a snail's pace... as we are seeing now in America. Once everyone is poor or broke, the system just stops "working", it sputters and stalls out just like a car engine running on fumes
It's economics 101 common knowledge that capitalism heavily depends on people spending money, but we're reaching a point where most people are tapped out/squeezed "dry" by widespread poverty and have nothing left to take (much less spend on discretionary/non-rent stuff).
This so-called economy is moving slower than even the slowest snail or laziest sloth
Not necessarily. The 1950s had more wealth equality than today, and we didn't have "socialism" or a dictatorship then. In fact, the 1950s were a very prosperous time for average Americans, compared to now. Back then, most people could get living-wage jobs with only a high school diploma. As long as you were white and male, at least. Now you need a college degree and $50k of student loan debt to land a $7/hour job at McDonald's.
Do you know what the top marginal tax rates were in the 1950s?
The 1950's were also before the GREAT SOCIETY and the birth of the welfare state. We have more social programs now more taxes collected than ever before and more wealth inequality.
The average tax paid by Americans were much lower in the 1950's than today. .02% of the population even paid the 80% rate even less paid 90%. Its a bad argument.
There are numerous reasons why we are in the mess we are in now. We have a lot more things. Cell phones, cable TV, internet. We like to go out to eat and travel a lot more than in the 1950's. To take a complex situation and say if we tax the top earners at 90% income inequality will go away is not true.
You do realize that if people have no money (due to unreasonably high COL, high insurance bills, high student loans, high rents, etc), they don't spend any money, right?
It's just like i said, once a large enough % of the population has no money/is broke the whole "system" grinds to a snail's pace... as we are seeing now in America. Once everyone is poor or broke, the system just stops "working", it sputters and stalls out just like a car engine running on fumes
It's economics 101 common knowledge that capitalism heavily depends on people spending money, but we're reaching a point where most people are tapped out/squeezed "dry" by widespread poverty and have nothing left to take (much less spend on discretionary/non-rent stuff).
This so-called economy is moving slower than even the slowest snail or laziest sloth
Well they are spending on necessities not on discretionary things. They are spending money.
The feds have overspent and over promised and part of the budget is just to pay the interest on that debt. That is wasted money. Interest rates have been kept artificially low to mask the issue that we have a huge debt to pay back.
I agree the economy for probably a majority of Americans sucks. I don't blame capitalism but those in Washington who made bad decisions and created this mess.
Interesting article about the unusual "choices" the working class are being forced to make in 2017 as the economy, cost of living, etc keeps getting worse and worse:
It seems we are going "backwards" in this country, it seems once most of the population is poor or has no money, it's all downhill on the slippery slope to 3rd world status. Once enough people are broke or poor, it seems the "engine" of capitalism sputters and stalls out (as spending is the "fuel"). And it's even worse this time around with the prospect of robots/automation on the horizon, on TOP of the much larger (and still growing) human population.
It's eerily/strangely reminiscent of the old crony-capitalist "robber-baron era" from pre-1900's times, are we going "full circle"?
Think about how things were back then:
- most of the population poor or servants of the rich
- kids having to work to help the household make ends meet (this one probably "coming back" soon)
- no future, no "upward" mobility, no hope to advance economically... you're born poor, you die poor
- most of the population "renting" from the rich, living in subpar housing, etc
- no unions, no safety/sanitation rules, no consumer protections, no regulation
- low/flat wages, crappy jobs, and no job security at all
- no safety nets at all, you work til' you die or hope your kids watch after you
- no healthcare, if you got hurt/sick you were out of work and thus SOL
- a tiny % of rich own it all, own everything, have all the power, etc
- previously "essential" items such as cars, hygiene products, medicine, food, etc increasingly becoming a "luxury" (as the article details )
- cronyism and corruption rule the day, "pay for play" shamelessly out in the open for all to see
Of course, Trump and his right-winger supporters don't have a problem with any of this, they in-fact favor the rich over their fellow working poor and middle-classers. They're so cold/uncaring they don't even want their fellow Americans to have a living wage (forcing those low-wage workers to subsidize their $8/hr jobs with welfare, rent vouchers, food stamps, etc). They are also anti-consumer, as evidenced by the likes of Betsy Davos and that Indian tech dude that Trump put in charge of the FCC. "Great again"?? Or is it more like "poor again"?
Not sure about 1800's style, but yes, we sure are. I think we're headed backward to WORSE than the 1800's.
So you're telling me the continuous rise of statism hasn't helped, and things are actually getting worse? I bet more state control will do the trick! /sarcasm
It's so frustrating for anyone who believes in individual liberty and laissez faire. You watch all this news about new regulations, new laws, new barriers for employers and employees, terrible economic and monetary policy, and all of these things (from both R's and D's) that are completely opposite of what we advocate, and then when things keep getting worse as predicted, the things we support take the blame and the same garbage continues. I'm just speechless when capitalism or free markets are blamed for anything these days.
My biggest annoyance the past few years...
"If you don't want big business, lobbyists, and politically connected cronies rigging things in their favor, don't let the government have that much power to give them in the first place"
*Ignores it* *Cronies continue to screw the general public*
"We need more regulations to stop them from doing that!"
"Except they're the ones writing and influencing the new regulations anyway! Get the government out of it and they have no special advantages!"
*Ignores it*
"See, this is what you get with unfettered capitalism..."
Hey mathguy, if you're so good at math, enlighten us on how an $8/hour worker can survive with a 2017 cost of living?
I'm no math expert, but i do know the math of $8/hour jobs versus the 2017 cost of living "just doesn't add up".
If someone decides not to go to college or some sort of trade school or vocation and decides to work at Burger King who is responsible for that? Burger King needs to pay them $15 an hour because this person made bad choices in life?
So we still haven't built up enough wealth to get to the improvement?
People are working longer hours. Wages are stagnant - benefits like pensions have gone away. Health care is unaffordable and our "Security State" Paranoia is stealing the money we should be using for domestic improvement.
My take is that we have a form of predatory capitalism...which takes money as it's God and the only measurement of results. A guy like Rick Scott takes the government for billions (fraud when he was CEO of united health) and we reward him by making him King.
Trump does the same with bankruptcies, screwing taxpayers and bondholders and contractors, and we also make him King.
We have industries that prey on older people, veterans of just about anyone who can be fooled or take for a ride...and it's 100% legal and even celebrated.
We have plenty of wealth. It's just that too many people are stuffing their pockets with more than they need - and others are stuffing with ill-gotten gains.
I think the words you're looking for are crony capitalism.
Mitch McConnell's Senate Republicans appear ready to pass a bill that raises premiums on the middle class while not cutting one cent from Medicaid.
I call it the "We Hate the Middle Class Act of 2017"
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